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The Catholic Church and G.ay Marriage

Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. posted this thread...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 7:01 am

There's a reason the Catholic Church teaches that g.ay marriage is a grave evil, and it's not hatred of g.ay people. Rather, it's because g.ay marriages are deeply contrary to the law of God and to human nature. This thread is for those confused or puzzled by the Church's stance to ask questions and dig deeper! :)

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MorganRF replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 9:51 am

I'm not confused as to why the Catholic Church condemns g.ay marriage, but I don't agree with it. I believe that if two people are in love, it doesn't matter if they are a man and woman, two women, or two men. You mentioned in another thread that a marriage is about not only love, but cocreation - or, that's what I got out of it, anyways. No, a g.ay couple can't produce offspring, but they can always adopt! And not all straight couples can cocreate, either. That's my take on it

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Mr.packerbear12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 11:24 am

And I feel bad for all the kids who have to be raised by g.ay couples who adopt them..

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stuntddude replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 11:27 am

So, Lucy-Agnes, if a straight couple is unable to reproduce, would you believe they're allowed to marry? What if they are able to reproduce, but choose not to? Should they be forbidden from marrying then?
 
"And I feel bad for all the kids who have to be raised by g.ay couples who adopt them."
 
And why's that?

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MorganRF replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 11:32 am

Yes, why is that?

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MorganRF replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 11:36 am

I have to side with stuntddude on this one. Should a couple not get married if they can't have their own, biological children? Should a couple not get married if they choose not to have their own children? Or, is it directed more towards g.ay couples out of contempt?

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Mr.packerbear12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 11:44 am

Because they're being raised to think that it's right, they don't really have a choice to decide whether it's right or wrong because they've always been raised by two dads or two moms(unless the rare case of transgender, then they'll think it's right to change who they are too). Like, it could get to the point that it becomes the norm, because they'll think it's strange people have one dad and one mom, which could also lead to a large decrease in the growth of our population. Just my opinion of course, I mean don't even bring religion into this one, just look at it with face value because there are some people who aren't religious that don't agree with it either.

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MorganRF replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 12:05 pm

Well, it is OK. That doesn't always mean the kids are going to be g.ay. One of my friends is being raised by a le.sb.ian mother, and he is straight. So, it is fine for kids to be raised by a g.ay couple

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 5:21 pm

A couple who is open to life but who cannot have children due to infertility reasons are definitely allowed to marry. A couple who chooses to be closed to life, though, should not get married. A couple who gets married with the intent to artificially contracept aren't really married at all. That's the Church's teaching.

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 5:27 pm

I'm sorry; that statement I made on the other thread was probably confusing. It's not that the Church teaches that only people who can have kids should marry; it's that they have to be open to life. According to my Catechism, the four essential elements of a Christian marriage are 1) unity between man and woman, 2) indissolubility, 3) openness to children, and 4) commitment to the spouse's welfare. The root problem with g.ay marriage is that man and woman are supposed to compliment each other, and while it's natural for man and woman to marry, for man and man or woman and woman to enter into such a relationship is unnatural.

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Admin. replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 6:09 pm

i just lost my whole post so i'll retype it and post in two/three chunks.
 
1. it's natural to be ga.y buddy lmao take a science course


2. :) remember that time my straight ci.s ortho.dox je.wish parents made me want to commit su.i.ci.de??? and i didn't only bc my adopted ga.y dad married to another ga.y man talked me out of it?? oh those evil ga.y people :) with their marriages hahaha harming children :) /sarcasm

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Admin. replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 6:14 pm

3. lol i turned out ga.y with extremely h.o.m.o.p.h.o.bic parents pal trust me & my n.o.n.b.i.n.a.r.y datemate i am ga.y as he.ck
 
4. yo stunt i have stalked these forums and you seem like a chill dude from what i've seen keep educating the populace [thumbs up emoji]
 
5. Allen will no longer be participating in debates. it's just not a thing that's working for him (long story) so here i am. Admin. ready to Yell. You can tell it's me by the utter lack of literacy/politeness and the '-admin' at the end of my posts. we share an account for Personal Reasons.

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Admin. replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 6:14 pm

6. Admin/Rey/Eve (call me whatever), ci.s girl, pa.nro.mantic a.se.xual, she/her pronouns please, white, atheist and ethnically je.wish. nice to meet you.
-admin

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 7:12 pm

Losing posts is no fun - happens to me, too. :(
1. Natural to be g.ay? Did you ever look at the human body? Did you ever think about the way men and women kinda compliment each other in a bodily way?
2. I'm so sorry to hear you wanted to commit suicide and I'm really honestly grateful your dad talked you out of it. I never said g.ay people were evil. I said g.ay activity is gravely evil. I'm sure there are lots and lots of really nice, loving g.ay people out there. But just because they're nice doesn't mean the lifestyle they're living is right....or natural.
 

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 7:20 pm

5. Admin, please, I was hoping this thread could be a charitable one, and I think we would all appreciate it if you would either respect all those on this thread or refrain from participating.
6. Nice to meet you, too. I'm Lucy-Agnes, diehard Catholic, who has a few pet peeves concerning morality and online etiquette. Tell you what: I'll pay attention in science class if you go take a grammar class. Deal? ;)
God bless you and lead you to the light!

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Quantum1.0 replied...
Mar. 18, 2016 at 11:00 pm

"yo stunt i have stalked these forums and you seem like a chill dude"
 
Nobody take this the wrong way, but this made me chuckle. I've known stuntddude on these forums for awhile and while I agree with him 98% of the time he can be very much the opposite of a chill dude.
 
Also, to the topic at hand, I agree with stuntdude - there is absolutely nothing wrong with g.ay marriage or with g.ay couples raising children. Generally, even though I'm agnostic/atheist I look pretty favorably on religion, but this is one of those things that really, really bothers me. Love is love, and its a little bit sick to me that a religion built on love can't recognize that.

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stuntddude replied...
Mar. 19, 2016 at 12:19 am

Packerbear:
 
"Because they're being raised to think that it's right"
 
You mean like how you're being raised to think it's wrong?
 
"they don't really have a choice to decide whether it's right or wrong because they've always been raised by two dads or two moms"
 
Why would that prevent them from having free choice of their own beliefs?
 
"it could get to the point that it becomes the norm, because they'll think it's strange people have one dad and one mom, which could also lead to a large decrease in the growth of our population."
 
I can tell that this is kind of a gut reaction and you probably didn't think it over logically before posting (otherwise you would have argued it differently), but let's break it down anyway:
 
1. There's no reason a child raised by two moms or two dads (or one mom, or one dad) in a society where the vast majority of the people they know have one mom and one dad, would find having straight parents strange.
 
2. There's an assumption implied here that being raised by g.ay parents will make a person g.ay, which is clearly not true.
 
3. You should know that only a small fraction (around 5-10% by common estimates) of the world's population is g.ay. This wouldn't be enough to tank the world's population growth, even if you (incorrectly) assume that none of them will raise children.
 
4. If the world's population growth did somehow take a hit, it would be a good thing; we're already beginning to see the adverse effects of overpopulation, and it will only get worse from here.

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stuntddude replied...
Mar. 19, 2016 at 12:21 am

Lucy-Agnes:
 
"A couple who chooses to be closed to life, though, should not get married."
 
Many g.ay couples choose to be adoptive parents, and g.ay women can still b.ir.th their own children thanks to sp.erm banks. Neither of those sound particularly "closed to life" to me (although I strongly disagree with the idea that the purpose of marriage is to bear children, or that anyone has an obligation to add to the world's population, i.e. from a moral perspective - as opposed to a religious one - it makes no difference).
 
"while it's natural for man and woman to marry, for man and man or woman and woman to enter into such a relationship is unnatural."
 
Here again, the evidence is against you. The fact is that hom.ose.xuality occurs naturally in many species, including humans. Regardless of whether or not it's moral, it undeniably does happen in nature, ergo it's natural.
 
"Natural to be g.ay? Did you ever look at the human body?"
 
Maybe you're just not looking at the right human bodies. Have you ever squeezed a pro.state? ;)
 
"I think we would all appreciate it if you would either respect all those on this thread or refrain from participating [...] go take a grammar class."
 
Politeness =/= respect (=/= charitability). IMHO that quip was honestly not called for.

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stuntddude replied...
Mar. 19, 2016 at 12:22 am

Quantum:
 
"I've known stuntddude on these forums for awhile and while I agree with him 98% of the time he can be very much the opposite of a chill dude."
 
I'm more chill now than I used to be. I think I deserve some credit :P

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 19, 2016 at 9:59 am

Quantum:
"Love is love."
That's just the problem - there are so many definitions of love out there, and you and I aren't talking about the same kind. Christianity isn't based on a romantic kind of love, a feeling. It's based on unconditional, self-sacrificing love, a virtue and an action and a choice - the kind the Greeks called "agape" and Christians call "charity." This charity doesn't have anything to do with feelings or romantic attraction - it is defined as a desire for the good of the other. That's why I'm trying to teach you why g.ay marriage is wrong - because I love you, in the sense that I care about your souls.
 

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