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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. posted this thread...
Mar. 19, 2016 at 6:48 pm

The Constitution states that all men (that means all humans) have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These are the basic human rights that our Constitution was founded on. In Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court ruled that women have a constitutional right to privacy (found in the 14th Amendment, I believe) and therefore a.bortion is a constitutional right. A woman does have a right to privacy - but what about her baby's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Doesn't the foundation of all the amendments trump one of the amendments themselves? 

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CNBono17 replied...
Mar. 19, 2016 at 7:05 pm

Amen; a child has its own genetic code from the moment of conception. 

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Mar. 19, 2016 at 11:34 pm

I consider myself Republican (although a more moderate one), but I tend to stray a bit left on social issues. Personally, why would anyone want a parent who doesn't want to be a parent? Also, what of cases like ra.pe or danger to the mother's health/too young to properly care for a child?

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Admin. replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 12:48 am

^ [points at wolves' post] Important question.
 
Here's the problem- a fetus is not a baby. It's a collection of cells. While I don't enjoy the term 'parasite' (because it does have a horribly negative connotation) that is pretty much what a fetus is. It relies on the parents' body to exist.
 
Now, I don't bear ill will towards fetuses (because if you want to have a kid, go ahead, pal) but... if you don't want a child, you shouldn't have to go through a pregna.ncy and labor.
 
If you've never heard of 'tearing,' I won't mention it to you, but let's just say that that's a risk people who don't even want kids definitely don't deserve.
 
I have a phobia of being pregn.ant (to the point that it makes me uncomfortable to see images of pre.gnant people or read books about them), so the idea of me having to be pre.gnant for literally any reason is terrifying.
 
Con.do.ms break. Bi.rth cont.rol fails. R.a.p.e happens. Spouses or partners leave.
 
And if we want to (realistically) lower the amount of abo.rtions, we need to work on those problems fist.

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Admin. replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 12:48 am

(above post by Admin, sorry, forgot to put my lil signature) 
 
-admin

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Mar. 20, 2016 at 10:45 am

Sorry if you guys see a ton of the same post here- I thought it kept being censored or something; it wouldn't show up.

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 11:11 am

wolvesandwilderness, this isn't just a Rebublican/Democrat issue. It's a matter of right and wrong. There are human lives at stake here. R.ape and teen pr.egnancy, etc., are tough situations, but the solution isn't to kill the baby. There are tons of organizations out there that help young mothers with crisis pre.gnancies without offering a.bortions. And if the mother really isn't ready to be a mother, she can always make the loving choice of adoption.
 

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 11:17 am

Admin -
If a fetus isn't a baby, what is it? It's a collection of cells, yes. So am I. So are you. They're human cells. What else could a collection of human cells be but a human baby? And if life doesn't start at conception, when does it start? It's like a slogan I once saw says - nothing grows unless it's alive. And yes, an unborn baby relies on its mother's body to exist. That's the way we're created to work. It's a beautiful thing, not a disease.
Definitely, not everyone is ready to be a parent. That's why no one should have s.ex until they're married, ready to take on the responsibility of having kids. The solution isn't to "fix" c.ondoms or b.irth c.ontrol, it's to stop using them, stop seeing our s.exu.ality as a toy for our own pleasure. Artificial c.ontraception isn't the solution to the problem, it's the root of the problem.
 

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CNBono17 replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 12:54 pm

To wolf and admin, I think adoption is the best bet for children who aren't wanted for whatever reason; it's not their fault for being conceived, and adopting would get them into the hands of a family who will want and love them. In terms of the mother's health, I think that should be on a case-to-case basis. There's a song by Mark Schultz called "What it Means to be Loved" where the parents have their baby even though she was supposed to die within a year of birth, and the song ends with her going to prom in high school; nothing is definitive, not even diagnoses. If I were expecting, no matter the circumstances, I'd have the baby regardless of the risk. 

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 1:02 pm

Adoption is truly a beautiful thing. My two youngest siblings are either adopted or in the process of being adopted by my family, and they are the light of our life. Some of my very best friends are adopted. I know families who have adopted children with Down's Syndrome, or kept babies with Down's Syndrome, and they are beautiful human beings.
My religion, Catholicism, teaches that you may never directly a.bort a baby even to save the mother, although you can give the mother a treatment which is risky to the baby. There's this one quote by some doctor that says in so many years of his practice, he's never seen a case where a.bortion would've been necessary to save the mother's life. It's not really that common. And there are many beautiful stories of women choosing life at risk to their own life.

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Mar. 20, 2016 at 1:24 pm

Adoption is extremely expensive; not everyone has the money. Then the poor kid may be stuck in social services his/her whole life.
I'm not Catholic, so I don't share your belief, and here's why: If someone gets knocked up when they're, say, 15- is that person ready, physically or emotionally, to have a child? Statistically speaking, chances for mental and physical problems for that child are increased by a lot, not to mention the ridicule and shame the mother goes through, whether it is her fault or not.

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 2:14 pm

(My two youngest siblings are adopted from social services. That's beside the point, though.) It's true that adoption can be really expensive, but it's also true that there are tons of couples out there thirsting for children. If there's a kid who needs a home, adoption agencies will find a home for him or her.
The mother might very well be unready to have a child, but one thing's certain: there are better options for her than a.bortion. Crisis p.regnancy centers are all around for young women in tough situations. There's always a better solution than a.bortion. Do you think having an a.bortion on her conscience will really help that poor girl in the long run? The great majority of women who have a.bortions regret them, and have to deal with emotional turmoil their entire lives, even if they don't admit it. A.bortion doesn't just hurt children; it hurts women.

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Mar. 20, 2016 at 4:32 pm

Yes, you have a point, but so does raising an unwanted child/being an unwanted child. That would be psychologically devastating, to have your parents regret your existence, and honestly, that might be how I felt were I in social services- I am not, and I am grateful I am not, but both options are harmful for both parties.

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CNBono17 replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 4:48 pm

Look at it this way: kids who are adopted aren't just passed over to someone. People who adopt kids go thru a long, arduous process to adopt. If anything, that ought to prove that the adoptive parents really, really want their kid. I know the thing with most adopted kids is "my real parents didn't want me," but there's also the aspect of "my adoptive parents wanted me enough to go through a long and pain-in-the-butt process and go out of their way and spend a bucketload of money to get me." Another Mark Schultz song that's good for this: "Everything to Me." (He was actually adopted, and this song is about his biological mom and gratitude that she had him anyway.)

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Mar. 20, 2016 at 5:13 pm

I know, and I find adoptive parents to be especially wonderful, wanting to take in children that aren't theirs. But still- that doesn't change the fact that there could well be resentment towards actual parents.
I believe this situation has come to "we'll agree to disagree", because clearly, none of us want to change our stance.

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 5:55 pm

Well sure, there might be resentment, but does that mean it would've been better for the child to have been killed? And I think in many, if not most, cases, the child will be very grateful to his or her biologicl parents for not a.borting them. I see biological parents who didn't a.bort as heroes and heroines.
You can agree to disagree if you want, but I like to think I won't rest until everyone sees the light. :)

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Admin. replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 6:57 pm

Me: I don't even want to have se.x, but if I get ra.ped, I shouldn't have to carry my ra.pist's child to term. I have a horrible fear of both pre.gnancy and labor, both of those have huge tolls on the parents' health, and I generally am terrified of this situation.
 
You: but the unborn baby. the unborn baby with no fears or wants. think of the baby.
 
Me: [screams internally for the next billion years because this is one of my worst fears and you think I should have to live it]

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 20, 2016 at 9:14 pm

I understand, r.ape is a really hard and heartbreaking situation. But you have to understand, killing the baby is only going to make it worse.
I do say think of the baby - the baby who never did anything to deserve this. Is it right to punish him, who has just as much potential for life as anyone, to be punished for someone else's crime?
Pr.egnancy and l.abor might be painful, but I don't think it's true that they have huge tolls on the parent's health. My mom has lived through it five times, and her mom (who's now 90) lived through it fifteen times. I actually read somewhere that women who have had six or more children tend to live longer than women who have had fewer children.

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JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 21, 2016 at 6:13 am

"If you've never heard of 'tearing,' I won't mention it to you, but let's just say that that's a risk people who don't even want kids definitely don't deserve."
 
I could list at least a dozen risks of preg.nancy (but there are definitely more), including stats of how common they are, to add to Admin's point.
 
I'm for abor.tion being a choice. That's not to say I can't relate to some degree what those against abor.tion feel. I understand that the pull for that potential life is something important.
 
I think the fundamental difference between our beliefs is that I consider the mother the most important part of the equation and pro-lifers the foetus.

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Lucy-AgnesThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 21, 2016 at 11:36 am

Maybe there are risks to pre.gnancy, but these risks aren't hefty enough to justify mur.der! It's natural for wom.en to bear children. It's how we were created. To k.ill the baby because we're afraid for our own safety is the epitome of selfishness.
"Potential" life? This is an existing life, my dear. This baby already has his own DNA and his own soul. This is more than just a pull for potential life. It's the civil rights issue of our day. Someday the world will look back on these days of ours and say, "What on earth were we thinking?" It'll be seen as worse than slavery, worse than the Holocaust. Do you want to be remembered as one of those who did nothing?
I care just as much about the mother as I do the unb.orn baby. Ab.ortion kil.ls the baby's physical life, but it kil.ls the mother's soul and rips part of her hea.rt away. Ab.ortion isn't just a war on babies - it's a war on women.

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