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LET'S TALK FEMINISM

Tactical_Writer_65 replied...
Dec. 24, 2014 at 11:41 pm

Sorry, I meant decisions

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stuntddude replied...
Dec. 25, 2014 at 12:58 am

"It's just how it is" is a pure cop-out. No, it's not "just how it is", as evidenced by the large portion of families that don't follow your simple "ideal" dynamic at all.
 
"don't see Stuntddude using any valid facts and evidence in this argument either"
 
Then perhaps you should look harder. I've given very specific reasoning and valid refutations, which is enough in itself to overturn a claim. The person making a claim is the one who needs to provide evidence - i.e., not me in this instance. In philosophy and debate, it's called the "burden of proof" - the person presenting a claim must prove their claim with evidence, but the person arguing against that claim only needs to provide a good counter-example or demonstrate a hole in the argument to disprove it. To debunk a hypothesis, you don't need to conclusively demonstrate the opposite.
 
In any case, you could have easily summed up your entire post in a few words, something like "I agree with Katy-Kat and disagree with Stuntddude." Because that's literally all your post actually communicates.

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stuntddude replied...
Dec. 25, 2014 at 1:03 am

"I think a husband is very much qualified to do so."
 
Your evidence, please?
 
"Evidence? Take a look around in the natural and real world and I think it's enough."
 
This isn't how evidence works. Please take an hour out of your life to learn how to have an educated, informative conversation. This is not even debate 101, this is way before that. This is like some kindergarten-level basics-of-the-basics kind of stuff.

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Katy-KatThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Dec. 25, 2014 at 4:54 am

Honestly, there is no point to this, at all. If you read carefully at the description of this thread, it states 'share your views' not 'write an argumentative essay' and in essence, this thread isn't even meant to truly be a 'debate thread', as clearly stated in the description for the Philosophy and Thought thread.
 
In the RP thread, which I'm sure Tactical and I are far more familiar with, there's clear cut rules for how to construct an RP and some basics on how to do it. Here...? I don't see such rules. Not to make a case for 'I'm gonna do whatever I want and you can't stop me!', but I don't feel like me or Tactical are doing anything wrong with the posts we make, since we are 'sharing our views' as the thread states that we can do.
 
Stuntddude, maybe this evidence isn't clear enough to you, but if you look closely at your last two posts, you'll see that the majority of them include...
 
1) condescending statements
2) statements that have little to do with the topic at hand
3) the ripping apart of Tactial and me's structure as we 'share our views'
 
Perhaps the two of us aren't educated in debate. And frankly, I don't care at this point. Because I don't see any evidence of this thread absolutely needing perfectly written out essays in order to share views 'correctly.'
 
Dissecting my posts and pointing out every 'flaw' in them isn't really teaching me much and in all honesty, I don't feel the need to 'take an hour of my life' to learn how to express myself to your standards. But hey, if you do want to be helpful, you can try and show me where in this thread it says structured debate absolutely needs to be taken place here and better yet, if it is required, make a little thread on some basic kindergarten debate methods so that way we're not ruining your debate party. 

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Tactical_Writer_65 replied...
Dec. 25, 2014 at 2:37 pm

Stuntddude, I don't think anyone gives Jack about these debate team stuff. No one cares. All people want is a response and an intelligent convo, not a silly, stupid, and immature person attempting to point out flaws that have nothing to do with the topic and provide no learning experience

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Tactical_Writer_65 replied...
Dec. 25, 2014 at 2:39 pm

Or if you want me to say this in a simple few words, which you cant do, based on your posts: your posts amount to nothing but squat

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stuntddude replied...
Dec. 25, 2014 at 3:59 pm

Katy-Kat:
 
First of all, when you say "thread," what you mean is "forum section", and secondly, sharing views does not preclude the possibility of debate - if anything, it implies and encourages it. Simply reading people list off their beliefs isn't interesting. It's the back-and-forth regarding the why of it all that's worth anyone's time.
 
Nobody is saying you're doing anything wrong or violating the rules or spirit of the forum in any way. Nobody even brought that up before you did just now.
 
You're correct that my posts contain numbers 1 and 3 from your list, and #3 is a valid aspect of any debate (or argument, discussion, whatever you want to call it). #1 is just me. I'm impatient and honest to a fault, and I don't really care for formalities. Hence the rudeness.
 
Nobody is calling for "perfectly written essays". That's just silly. All I'm asking is for you to have actual evidence to back up what you say.
 
Your last paragraph is just a reiteration of the rest of your post, so my response would be a reiteration as well.

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Caesar123 replied...
Dec. 26, 2014 at 11:32 pm

Well if I may rear my head again...
 
I actually happen to agree with stuntdude more on this topic specifically. Why can't men be capable of child-rearing or women the head of the household? Why is the de facto claim that men have the final say if there is an argument? Personally when I'm married and living my life, I hope to make decisions equally with my wife, and for neither of us to truly "wear the pants".
 
However, I do believe that Katy's "natural" argument has some merit as many things that occur naturally do so for a reason (i.e. they work). And honestly I'm confused by your "anti-organic" statment stuntdude. Are organic foods not better for you? Could you please explain?
 
In conjunction with that, I think it's clear that there are positive aspects to manmade products/innovation, but there is also a loss of some things too (i.e. we drive cars which is great for moving things, but the pollution not so much).
 
Finally, I'm glad you finally acknowledged your rudeness stuntdude. Honestly it drives me crazy, and even now I'm wondering if you're going to eviscerate this comment with nasty remarks. While there's no law against such conduct, you've got to realize that you won't get far in life with that kind of attitude and it makes people less likely to agree with your argument even if you happen to be right.

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stuntddude replied...
Dec. 27, 2014 at 12:42 am

"And honestly I'm confused by your "anti-organic" statment stuntdude."
 
I never made any "anti-organic statement". I'm only saying that if the extent of your understanding of dietary health is "organic == good", then you're missing the point. Favoring organic farming methods doesn't always offer you any benefit, and it isn't a simple ticket to good health. And in many cases, on a large scale, it isn't the most sustainable option.
 
"you've got to realize that you won't get far in life with that kind of attitude"
 
Haha okay sure, if you say so. Just watch me tho.

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Katy-KatThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Dec. 27, 2014 at 8:22 am

Honestly Caesar, it's a concept that I struggle with as well. Me, I know what I want, when I want it, how I want it to be done, and I'm not afraid to request things specifically. It's really hard for me to step back and let my significant other (who has a lot of maturing to do x3) think up some ideas and make decisions. Really, if I told him to jump off of a cliff, he'd do it, and it's kinda scary, haha..
But, my huge argument to men being leaders doesn't really belong in this forum and I'd rather not ruffle stuntddude's feathers further. :p Truly, it's a conclusion that I didn't come to myself.
 
However, when I get married, yes, there may be some arguments, but I feel that if my husband and I were truly matched and have a common understanding about some things, I would be willing to take some of his ideas into consideration and go along with them, while giving my input as well. And I think I'd be strong enough to trust that he has me and my family's best interests at heart. And if we find out later on he was wrong? I can pull out the, "I told you so!" card and maybe make some changes. If not? Then I know that my trust was all worth it and I shouldn't have to fret.

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stuntddude replied...
Dec. 27, 2014 at 2:59 pm

"I would be willing to take some of his ideas into consideration and go along with them, while giving my input as well."
 
This doesn't sound like one person having ultimate authority to me, this sounds like a healthy relationship where each person takes the other's wishes into consideration when making decisions.

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Katy-KatThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Dec. 27, 2014 at 3:44 pm

I'd give my input, but it would be up to him to make the final say, hopefully considering my ideas. And believe me, if a relationship exists in which one spouse doesn't at least listen to the other, it's not a healthy one. I never said that the wife had to be mindless.

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Caesar123 replied...
Dec. 27, 2014 at 9:57 pm

Okay, so to totally digress from the topic at hand, what is a good/healthy/sustainable diet that doesn't include organic or primarly organic foods, stuntdude?

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stuntddude replied...
Dec. 28, 2014 at 3:06 am

Did I claim that there was one? I don't know if there is, or what it would be. "Organic" is too vague for there to really be any good answer to that question.

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Caesar123 replied...
Dec. 29, 2014 at 12:33 am

Alright, whatever. Like I said, totally off topic and not worth arguing to the death over (the organic stuff I mean).

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Jan. 10, 2015 at 2:41 pm

Wow, lot's has happened since I've been gone, but I guess I can put my cards in on the topic.
 
 
Katy and Tactical
 
So with men being considered "leaders", this is actually a real problem in our societies. I want to tell you a story from my life, if you'll let me permit. When I was a kid, I was loud, ambitious, and felt myself growing into a more leader-like personality. But then I was constantly called bossy, and (keep in mind I'm still a child at this point) I slowly started pulling within myself to keep my mouth shut, to not take charge because I was so afraid of being called bossy, or arrogant, or pushy, because then, and still today, I have self-esteem issues. 
 
What I'm trying to say by telling you that little anecdote was that as a child, I was always told not to be assertive. And it is a real problem. If we tell girls it is not there place to be leaders, we are pushing down a key function in the development of their personalities, interests, and goals. The more we tell them to be good little girls, not loud, or pushing themselves into leader-ship roles, we're harming them and our future society.
 
And with the analogy of the lion pride, there are many animal species were the female is dominant. For example
 
Elephants*
Hyenas*
Praying Mantises
Baboons*
Meerkats*
 
And notice the animals with stars next to them, all live in groups. So, they also live in operating communities.

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aprilanne replied...
Jan. 17, 2015 at 12:14 pm

feminism is not about dehumanizing men or arguing, it is about equality.being a feminist does not automatically mean you hate men nor that you are arguementative! feminism is a very controversial topic right now, if we think back to only 50 years ago woman had less rights. the world is ever changing. we are all capable of great change if we just open our minds! in my opinion if humanity is not yet able to accept new ideas with an open mind we are not as highly developed as we think we are!!

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JorySpoon replied...
Feb. 20, 2015 at 3:46 pm

If you support equality of the sexes, then you are (by definition) a feminist. The feminist movement wants birth control to be covered by their insurance providers. No one wants to hack up a baby by this I assume you mean abortion, which is in NO way hacking up a baby. Let me remind you that pro-choice is NOT pro-abortion.

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JorySpoon replied...
Feb. 20, 2015 at 3:50 pm

I don't know if you know how pregnancy works, but an embryo or zygotte is not a human body. I agree about the preventive measures, but in some states it is VERY hard to get birth control and even if they have access to it, it does not work 100% of the time. Also, abortion is not murder, murder is illegal abortion is not. An embryo has the POTENTIAL to become human, but it is not human yet. I'd like to tell you about a right to ALL humans: bodily integrity. It is the right to control your own body and states that NO ONE (not even a fetus) has the right to someone's body.

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JorySpoon replied...
Feb. 20, 2015 at 3:53 pm

It is hardly a valid argument against abortion to say that it's murder, since no law says life begins at conception. Many pro-lifers are hypocritical to the extreme. This debate was decided in 1973, get over it.

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