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Ten Commandments: The Purpose of the Law

ContemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. posted this thread...
May 31 at 12:29 pm

Well, let's honor the Yo Newbies! thread and follow the rules XD

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ContemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 31 at 12:34 pm

"...I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law" The Apostle Paul, Romans 7:7b. 
  
"In order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful" Romans 7:13b 
  
Ray, one thing to note is that the Ten Commandments are not the first covenants from God. You should view the Ten commandments through the necessary context. 
  
"The Law, introduced 430 years later (after the promise given to Abraham), does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise; but God in His grace gave it to Abraham through a promise" Galations 3: 17-18 
  
What's the promise? Well, a number of promises have been given to Abraham, and all of them were necessary for the success of the one Paul is talking about. 
  
Genesis 12:3 
"I will bless those who bless you 
and whoever curses you I will curse; 
and all peoples of the earth will be blessed through you." 
  
"...through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me." Genesis 22:18 
  
The nation, all people, will be blessed through Abraham's descendant. This is the promise of the messiah. 
  
Recap: The first promise is that of the messiah. (Genesis 3:15 is another prophecy/promise). The law is to show us we need the messiah. 
  
Finally, with this explained, I will now tell you the purpose of sacrificing animals. 
  
Sin, to God, is an abomination. The only way for the punishment of sin, which is God's wrath, to be paid is through our blood. The sacrificing of animals didn't save us from our sins. But the sacrificial animals are more like signs for the death of Christ. He's the sacrificial lamb. He's the only one who can satisfy the wrath of God against us. 
  
And if this isn't confusing enough, Jesus Christ IS God. God the Son, Jesus, came and died to save us from God the Father's wrath. 
  
Why, you might ask, doesn't God just forget about the whole thing instead of killing Himself for Himself? Because blood has to be paid for sins. It HAS to be because God is perfect and just. He can't ignore or dismiss sin. So, God the Son died for our sins. 
  
This payment actually makes us free from the Law, giving us justification and being made perfect. We aren't perfect, but we're being made perfect. However, that's a totally different can of sardines. 
  
  
Woops, I rushed into this without reading your point 3. As I've said earlier, He is perfect and just. Think about these two things for a second. Perfect and just would make him perfectly just. Any transgression made against Him must be punished. He is also Love. If He wasn't, He wouldn't have sent Jesus to die on the cross. 
  
You might think "why would anybody want a god that is angry with you". I look at it this way, what kind of god would approve of my behavior? If you compared my best days to perfection, I'm a monster. If God's standard of good was so low I can qualify, then God isn't perfect.
 
 
I just reposted this from Chat/Announcemnets thread.

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Ray--yoThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 31 at 9:31 pm

Thanks you, Contemplator.
Here's what I got: The purpose is to distinguish sin, and to, uhh, establish an ethical society. But as PB mentioned, these ten are only being addressed to those God 'rescued' from Egypt, right? But since you mentioned these are not the first covenants from God, it makes sense.
I'm sorry but I was kinda lost reading those biblical references, and I have no idea who those characters are, but that shouldn't matter.
"It HAS to be (paid in blood) beacuse god is perfect"  This I didn't get at all. What has God's perfection got to do with this whole blood payment thing? -Unless blood is another metaphor. (which would explain most of the stuff you said afterwards). And God the son dying for our sins seems rather unjust, I mean people commit sins, God the son dies, and the result is we come closer to perfection? 
And point 3: 
"...the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,  but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. " I asked the question based on this, and this seems anything but just. Firstly, what does 'believing in God' or 'loving god' really mean? Fololowing his commandments? His system of punishing generations for the 'hatred' of one, along with blessing generations for faithfulness of one person, is also not just, unless it means something else.  
'Punishing' means the torment in he.ll, right? Does Christianity believe exclusively in the existance of heaven and 'he.ll' (Why is it censored, anyway?)?  This part is different from my faith, since we believe in Karma, our action is this life affect us in this life, for good deeds lead to good and bad deeds lead to bad, and no separate heaven or he.ll is there.
And would you mind telling me about the concept of God, as portrayed in your texts? All I know as of yet is that god is a spirit who is everywhere but also has a son and lives in heaven and speaks. God believes sin(ners) should be punished, and has made 'he.ll' for this, but he also loves us and sent his son (or his own manifestation) to free us from our sins, by dying. So yeah, I'm pretty confused.
Also, if god is a spirit, how come he be a 'he'? How do we know this?
 

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Ray--yoThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 31 at 9:32 pm

*our actions in this life,...

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ContemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 1 at 10:06 am

I would not say it was to establish an ethical society. Sure, the ten commandments might produce an ethical society, but pretty much every single people group around the world had an ethical society without it.

"I'm sorry but I was kinda lost reading those biblical references, and I have no idea who those characters are, but that shouldn't matter."

Surprisingly enough, it matters very much! 2 years ago, I might have agreed with you there. But since then, I've come to realize how the history of the Jews really matter in Christianity. Every morsel and nugget of the OT is about Jesus Christ. I'm no bible-meister, but what I do know is pretty cool.

Blood means death.
Genesis 2:17
...you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.

Sin, as I've said before, is an abomination to God. Which makes sense because God is perfect and good, and in turn, perfectly good. Him and sin are like water and oil. They don't mix. When we disobey God, the punishment is death a.k.a blood. Because the punishment for sin is death, death must happen in order to quench the law.

Romans6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Against popular belief, nobody is in he.ll YET. That happens on judgement day. Our punishment for sinning against God is death.

OOOH! Here's another brain twister XD
John 3:18
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only son.

In other words, you're already dead. Dead in your sins is the simplest way to put it. Basically, you're already receiving your punishment, and on judgement day, you'll simply be the way you are now except without the presence of God and without a physical body. The bible describes it at a lake of fire. I'm not sure if it literally is a lake of fire, or if being dead without the presence of God is like being in a lake of fire.

Recap: Blood= Death. The price for sin is death. Believers are not/ will not be dead spiritually, but non-believers are already dead.


"His system of punishing generations for the 'hatred' of one, along with blessing generations for faithfulness of one person is also not just, unless it means something else"

I agree with you. That seems to me a bit unjust. We should be annihilated instead. The older I get, the more I see how bad sin is. Did you know that God views murder under the same light as lying? Sin is sin no matter how small. Really, I'm no different than the stereotypical murderer. The only difference is that I've been able to keep myself from murdering. Make sense?

This is aside from the point. Let me show you passage that directly deals with your question:
Jon 9:1-4a
As he, Jesus, went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man or his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in him..."

To believe in God means to believe His word. Not only do we believe He exists, but we believe He will what he said He will do. To love God is the result of believing in Him.

You believe in good and evil? What decides what is good and what is evil? Better question yet, what IS good and evil? Good is of God and anything evil isn't of God. But can I ask you, are you good?
"All of our righteous acts are like filthy rags"-Isaiah 64:6

We aren't capable of ever doing good. Any single action we take might look good, but when compared to a standard that is perfectly good, it looks evil. I could say our good actions compared to something perfectly good will just look less good. But, anything less than good is bad.

"and would you mind telling me about the concept of God, as portrayed in your texts?"

Ay!! God is the creator of the world. He created time, space, animals and us. He created language. He created intelligence. But He, himself, was not created because He is eternal.



Dang! I've got to go to church now. And then I'll be off fishing!!!!

So much to say, so little time... and vocabulary.

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ContemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 1 at 10:06 am

I would not say it was to establish an ethical society. Sure, the ten commandments might produce an ethical society, but pretty much every single people group around the world had an ethical society without it.
 
"I'm sorry but I was kinda lost reading those biblical references, and I have no idea who those characters are, but that shouldn't matter."
 
Surprisingly enough, it matters very much! 2 years ago, I might have agreed with you there. But since then, I've come to realize how the history of the J.ews really matter in Christianity. Every morsel and nugget of the OT is about Jesus Christ. I'm no bible-meister, but what I do know is pretty cool.
 
Blood means death.
Genesis 2:17
...you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.
 
Sin, as I've said before, is an abomination to God. Which makes sense because God is perfect and good, and in turn, perfectly good. Him and sin are like water and oil. They don't mix. When we disobey God, the punishment is death a.k.a blood. Because the punishment for sin is death, death must happen in order to quench the law. 
 
Romans6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
 
Against popular belief, nobody is in he.ll YET. That happens on judgement day. Our punishment for sinning against God is death.
 
OOOH! Here's another brain twister XD
John 3:18
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only son.
 
In other words, you're already dead. Dead in your sins is the simplest way to put it. Basically, you're already receiving your punishment, and on judgement day, you'll simply be the way you are now except without the presence of God and without a physical body. The bible describes it at a lake of fire. I'm not sure if it literally is a lake of fire, or if being dead without the presence of God is like being in a lake of fire.
 
Recap: Blood= Death. The price for sin is death. Believers are not/ will not be dead spiritually, but non-believers are already dead.
 
 
"His system of punishing generations for the 'hatred' of one, along with blessing generations for faithfulness of one person is also not just, unless it means something else"
 
I agree with you. That seems to me a bit unjust. We should be annihilated instead. The older I get, the more I see how bad sin is. Did you know that God views murder under the same light as lying? Sin is sin no matter how small. Really, I'm no different than the stereotypical murderer. The only difference is that I've been able to keep myself from murdering. Make sense?
 
This is aside from the point. Let me show you passage that directly deals with your question:
Jon 9:1-4a
As he, Jesus, went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man or his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in him..."
 
To believe in God means to believe His word. Not only do we believe He exists, but we believe He will what he said He will do. To love God is the result of believing in Him.
 
You believe in good and evil? What decides what is good and what is evil? Better question yet, what IS good and evil? Good is of God and anything evil isn't of God. But can I ask you, are you good? 
"All of our righteous acts are like filthy rags"-Isaiah 64:6
 
We aren't capable of ever doing good. Any single action we take might look good, but when compared to a standard that is perfectly good, it looks evil. I could say our good actions compared to something perfectly good will just look less good. But, anything less than good is bad.
 
"and would you mind telling me about the concept of God, as portrayed in your texts?"
 
Ay!! God is the creator of the world. He created time, space, animals and us. He created language. He created intelligence. But He, himself, was not created because He is eternal.
 
 
 
Dang! I've got to go to church now. And then I'll be off fishing!!!!
 
So much to say, so little time... and vocabulary.

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ContemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 1 at 10:07 am

Je.w is censored XD That's annoying.

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Mr.packerbear12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 1 at 10:17 am

I don't have time as of right now to get into this discussion but Jew is not censored, J.ews is, just to let ya know;)

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Ray--yoThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 1 at 11:57 pm

Thanks, the recap specially helped to put it together. And since the results of our deeds are already felt in our lives, it seems to be in sync with the principle of karma-fal.
And how, how does blindness display the work of god in someone??
And what if some believe that a god exists, is aware of the consequences,and yet commits sins deliberately? Does he pay in blood?
"All of our righteous acts are like filthy rags"  We aren't capable of ever doing good. Any single action we take might look good, but when compared to a standard that is perfectly good, it looks evil. I could say our good actions compared to something perfectly good will just look less good. But, anything less than good is bad. "
That just seems, wrong. When compared to perfectly good, our good deeds do not look evil. And when compared to perfectly evil, they do not look like a tower of gold either. This seems really weird, us being ordered to do good, no matter how 'filthy' that good is. Believing in a perfectly good god is one thing, but lowering your own righteousness is something else. Otherwise, what's the point of doing good if it is never going to be good enough?
 

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Ray--yoThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 1 at 11:59 pm

*someone believes

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ContemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 3 at 10:51 am

"And how, how does blindness display the work of god in someone??"
 
John 9, the one with the blind man, is a historical text. Things that happenned in a historical text are not universal truths or proverbs. They are historical truths. So, when the disciples asked who sinned, this blind man or his parents, they don't mean every blind man in the world. And Jesus' answer was about that particular blind man.
 
After Jesus healed him, many people recognized the man who was once blind. It is here the glory of God was displayed through his blindness... or lack of blindness.
 
I'm not saying that no other blind person, or handi capped person in general, will not be able to show the glory of God through their disablility. I'm sure if you ever met one who is a christian, they'd give you some hour long testimony of how God helped him/her through the tough times in life. It's pretty typical.
 
"When perfectly good, our good deeds do not look evil. And when compared to perfectly evil, they do not look like a tower of gold either."
 
Why? My reasoning is, anything less than good is bad. When we compare ourselves to a perfectly good cannon, or rule, we are less than good. Therefore, we are bad.
 
"...lowereing your own righteousness is something else." I don't believe I lower my own righteousness. It's more of a realization of how low I really am.
 
"Otherwise, what's the point of doing good if it is never going to be good enough?"
Wow, you caught it!!! This is the conclusion I've been waiting for! I believe you asked this question already through a different angle. What is the point of the law. The answer, as I've told you, is for us to know we are sinful. We need Jesus to save us from the punishment that is to come.
 
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son. So that whoever believes in him, shall not perish, but have eternal life.
 
2 Corinthians 5:21
God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might be the righteousness of God.
 
Romans 6:1
Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
 
"And what if some believe that a god exists, is aware of the consequences, and yet commits sins deliberately? Does he pay in blood?"
 
Yes, he does die. More so, the wrath of God will be laid upon him because that is also the punishment for sin. The man you described is one I'd call a fool. He knows God. He knows the consequences of sin. But he continues to sin anyway? Doesn't he know God died for him? Every person who is dead in sin is dead in vain.
 
Recap: The blind man showed the Glory of God to those who knew him by being healed. The ingorant man is punished for his sins. Jesus died for us so that we might not die. Christians try to not sin because they are alive in christ.
 
I feel like I can do a better job with the last point... but I'd like to see how much you understand first.

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 3 at 1:30 pm

I'm in Physics class right now so I don't have time to answer everything, but I just wanted to address your question, Ray, about why are own righteousness is never good enough.
 
Basically, humans have had fallen, sinful natures ever since Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden (read Genesis 3 if you're not sure what I'm referring to).
Humans are now born with a sinful nature. Our very thoughts and desires are at enmity with God. No action we can do will ever match up to the perfect, sinless standard that God originally created us to have, and that we fell away from.
We do not have the power or ability within ourselves to follow God's Law perfectly. However, if we depend fully on the grace of Christ we can be transformed to have His perfect character. It is only then that we can follow God's Law; our own actions as sinful beings will never be enough.
 
Hopefully, that makes sense. I'll try to answer some of your other questions later (although contemplator is doing a pretty good job).
 
God bless. ♥

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DoctorbugThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 3 at 4:36 pm

*why our own righteousness
 
muahaha

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Ray--yoThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 3 at 9:23 pm

On Bindness thing:
If God can heal a blind person, why not heal blindness? As you mentioned, sin, however 'small' or 'large', is sin. So why would god let some suffer with blindness, since 'we're all sinners.'  I've also heard of God ressurrecting a deceased girl in your texts, is that true?
Others:
What I mean to say is, do we have to compare ourselves to the perfection of god, and consider ourselves low? And does god punish everyone who is not as perfect as god himself? 
Half.note mentioned how we've fallen from the perfect standard that god created for us. Why does god not heal our sinful nature, and stop the suffering? Also, what exactly is the sin the two committed? What does the forbidden fruit represent?
And about the whole mechanism of dying: So we commit sins in our life, die, Jesus redeems us, and we escape punishment? 
So yeah, I don't think I've understood much. (3rd world brains, lol)

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 4 at 12:08 am

Doctorbug:
 
-_-
 
Cut me some slack; I was trying not to get caught on Teen Ink by my Physics teacher. :P
 
 
Ray:
 
Okay, I'll try to give you the best explanation that I can, but I think it would be best if you read the first four chapters of the book, Patriarchs and Prophets by Ellen G. White. She thoroughly explains the events that took place before, during, and after the Fall of Man and why it was necessary that God sent His Son Jesus to die for our sins.
However, I know that reading some forty or so pages of a book is rather time consuming, so I'll just give you the Coles Notes version in case you don't get to the reading.
 
Oh, nevermind; it's geting rather late and I still have homework to do. I'll have to type up an explanation some other time. In the meantime, see if you can find the book I recommended (just do a quick search online; there's usually a lot of free online copies you can read).
 
God bless. ♥

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DoctorbugThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 6 at 6:24 pm

Ouch. I just couldn't resist. It was all in fun.

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Ray--yoThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 12 at 8:03 am

I'm sorry, half.note, but my classes have started and I don't really have time for the book. I might try the book once my vacations begin (but that's months later).
And I don't mean to be rude, or offensive, or anything like that; only out of curiosity, do you actually believe 'God' literally created the universe in seven 'days'?

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Mr.packerbear12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 12 at 11:30 am

No, we don't Ray. We believe God created the eart in 6 literal days and He rested from all the work which He had made on the 7th day.

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Ray--yoThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jun. 13 at 7:36 am

Oh, Thanks, PB.

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