Facebook Activity



Teen Ink on Twitter

Teen Ink Forums

Lively discussions with other teens
   
Superhero_Fan replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 3:03 pm

Flo: Okay, now I can answer your last questions!
"Oki, 1) Why and 2) lambs aren't perfect either."
I already explained why to you. Because God loves us. And I'm not sure why they used lambs because, you're right, they aren't perfect either. Again, I'm expecting another debate, just keep in mind that I'm not trying to be mean by not replying till Sunday.*

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
ContemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 3:13 pm

I acknowledge your humanity with this symbol, *.
 
Flo and Superhero: "" Oki, 1)Why and 2) lambs aren't perfect either." 
I already dexpalined whty to you. Because God loves us. And i'm not sure why they used lambs because, you're right, they aren't perfect either."
 
God didn't allow just any lamb to be a sacrifice, only the ones with out blemishes. It was just a symbol pointing towards Jesus Christ. In other words, the sacrificial lambs were more for symbolism. The blood of the lamb didn't save them from their sins, only Jesus' blood.
 
When Jesus took upon himself the iniquities of the world, he didn't just take the iniquites from that moment in time. He took all of our sins, present, future and past, on himself. The sacrificial lambs were just representing that coming event.
 
Make sense?
 
Your humanity was acknowledged throughout the creation of this post. *

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Destinee replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 3:20 pm

^ I swear to God you're making fun of it :P LOL. Funny.
 
*

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Superhero_Fan replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 3:24 pm

Contemplator: I knew about the blemishes, but I don't think anyone's ever told me the lambs were a symbol. Thanks for mentioning that! 
I also acknowledge your humanity. *

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Aug. 27, 2013 at 5:45 pm

 





 




I’m amazed no one said anything about the me being tipsy part XD Anyways~




 




Katsk:




 




"The trinity. I like thinking of it like a shamrock. As the story goes, St. Patrick held up a shamrock and used it to teach the people who were imprisoning him, I believe, about God. Three parts, one whole. Green awesomeness."




 




Again, one leaf can't be the other. And if the whole thing is God and Jesus is one of the leaves, then Jesus still isn't God. He's /part/ of God.




 




"Also, the sacrifice was to show how they cared. It wasn't just a Jewish thing; Greeks and other people who I never learned about sacrificed food to their god(s). It's showing your devotion and respect and thanks."




 




Uh-huh, I'm just asking whyyy. Like, why we kill random things to show appreciation? Kinda violent, no?




 




Read:




 




"Regarding the egg analogy, the egg ITSELF it God, so yes, Jesus is God"




 




No, by that logic Jesus is a third of God. He still isn't God.




 




"And emphasis on the "analogy", we do not worship an egg."




 




Yeah I know, I was just going crazy yesterday XD




 




"A part of the book "The Shack" (awesome :3) kind of explains better why Jesus died for our sins: 




So, there's this father, and he's told that he must pick two of his daughters to go to heaven and two to go to he.ll.  He's extremely torn by this, he can't condemn his own children.  He asks if he can take his children's place so he doesn't have to condemn any.  The book itself is a lot better than my summary, but..yeah.  Imagining yourself in that scenario helps you understand Jesus's actions."




 




I'm not arguing why Jesus died or anything, in the small chance it did happen I'd understand why, I'm just saying the whole story about him is ridiculous, he's not God, and as I said before, he was more or less a glorified prophet.




 




"Ok, honestly, on a daily basis, we do things that we know aren't right and push God away.  These things individually do not warrant the death penalty, but combined?  Us constantly denying God, even though the very life we live is a gift from Him?...and this times the six billion people on earth, yes, I think that adds up to, at the very least, a death penalty.  And someone needed to take that punishment, but God couldn't bear to lose us, so He took it Himself."




 




So we're not even individuals anymore, no, God combines all of us and then judges us as a whole. OKAI, WOW, FUNNNN.




 




"I agree, I don't love the egg analogy, but you know what?  We're trying to explain the nature of the supreme creator of the universe.  Sorry if it doesn't fit into a nice little sentence regarding a common food item."




 




Wat Des said.




 




Superhero:




 




"Actually, you just defined the 'perfect' I'm talking about."




 




But you just said he was perfect according to the bible >.>;




 




"Could you give me an example?"




 




A twisted guy thinks serial killers are perfect because they rid the world of unnecessary people. A dou.che believes perfect is when a girl is blonde, skinny, curvy, and all around beautiful, it doesn't matter what their personality is. An algalmatophiliac believes that mannequins are perfect. when you love someone deeply you'll think that they're perfect, even if they're nothing like God. I can seriously go on and on with this.




 




"Do you actually know what I was talking about, or were you seriously confused about that? I can't tell."




 




No I actually remember XD I used to go to church school ya know. It was just a really long time ago.




 




"The reason he waited three days was because Jesus had told his desciples that he'd rebuild the temple in three days. He was talking about himself when he said that."




 




Why. Why did he say three days? Why not two days. Or five days. Or an hour. Or a week. Why specifically three days? It's very arbitrary and kinda just wastes time.




 




"I already explained why to you. Because God loves us."




 




I meant why kill a lamb.




 




Contemplator:




 




"God didn't allow just any lamb to be a sacrifice, only the ones with out blemishes. It was just a symbol pointing towards Jesus Christ. In other words, the sacrificial lambs were more for symbolism. The blood of the lamb didn't save them from their sins, only Jesus' blood."




 




Oki, it's a symbol. That we kill. We kill a pretty lamb because we wanna make a symbol. It didn't even save them or do anything. Ya. So let's just kill this lamb cuz God will appreciate a dead carcass.




 




"When Jesus took upon himself the iniquities of the world, he didn't just take the iniquites from that moment in time. He took all of our sins, present, future and past, on himself. The sacrificial lambs were just representing that coming event. 




  




Make sense?"




 




Uh-huh. Oki. Ya. Kill the pretty lamb. To represent Jesus. Just to represent him. Ya. Nothing else. Nothing else really important. Let's just represent Jesus with this lamb. Ya. Cuz God lieks dead carcass lamb. Maybe it's his fetish. God has a dead carcass lamb fetish gais. (I'm joking don't take that too seriously, sheesh >.> )




 

 

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Aug. 27, 2013 at 5:46 pm

fjsdklfjskl sorry, spacing >.>; I always copy and paste everything into pastebin and type it up there, then copy and paste it back into this box which messes up allthe spaces e.e;

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Aug. 27, 2013 at 5:52 pm

*****
 
☆*:.。. o(≧▽≦)o .。.:*☆

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Superhero_Fan replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 5:56 pm

Flo: I'll answer you Sunday! Sorry 'bout that, but this time I'm actually leaving. (I've said that about three times on this thread, but I keep coming back to it...)

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
ContemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:01 pm

Flo:
This summer I've seen a glimpse of God's love for us. Maybe even just its reflection off of a still lake.

In the beginning, God created everything. The world, the animals (including the lambs) and us. He gave the first man and woman a place to live, all the food they could eat, and a purpose. With all these things he charged them with on law to follow, that is, to not eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve, regardless of all the things God did for them, disobeyed. They ate the fruit.

Lets fast forward past the curses of God and the little Cain and Abel incident, right to Genesis 6. The world became populated with the children, grand-children and so on, of Adam and Eve. The people were evil. Genesis 6:5-6

5 Then the Lord[a] saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.


Later in this story, God wipes out the entire human race, except Noah and his family. Noah was the only man alive at the time who was righteouss in God's eyes. Noah trusted that God would save him. Somehow, someway.

Lets fastforward 4000 some years to Jesus. I understand that you don't believe Jesus to be the Son of God, or God. But I'm just telling you what I believe, and in this grand scheme, shed some light on the scacrifes.
God knows how evil man can be. He's seen the worst of us. When Isaiah the prophet was shown the glory of God, he cried out saying that his own righteousness are filthy rags (and that's saying a lot for Isaiah). Basically, that means even our best deeds are horrible to God.

With all this knowledge of man, God still humbled himself and became a man... just to save us!!!! He brought Himself down to our level, lived a life of a carpenter's son. He ate, slept, starved, thirst just like any other human. And when He started preaching, everyone either hated him or loved him. Jesus healed the sick and loved the unloved. But, in the end, the people crucified Him. The teased, mocked, spat and whipped him. Then they nailed Him up on that cross. Jesus, as Matthew phrased it, "yielded up his spirit".

You know what blows me away? Jesus allowed all of that to happen just so that we can be saved from our own mess. We are the ones who sinned. We are the ones didn't believe, or trust. Why did God become a man? Why did he die a sinners death? God made Him, who knew no sin, to become sin for us, the sinners.

God wanted the jews to do lots of things. He gave them laws to follow. These laws were not meant to save them, but to show that they needed to be saved. The lambs were part of this. God used the lambs to help us understand. So that, in the end, we can be with Him.

For those who don't know the rest Jesus' story: JESUS ROSE FROM THE GRAVE!! HE ISN'T DEAD ANYMORE!! BUT THERE Are still some holes inhiswrists.... should've stopped when I was ahead.

*This message was written in love to you*


Dess: NOWAY! I'm having fun with it.
*This message was written in humor*

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:02 pm

XD I know, I know :P *

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
readaholicThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 9:06 pm

OK, I don't know what I meant when I mentioned "the six billion people around the world".  I think the point I was trying to make was that our own combined sins would equal a death penalty.  Constantly denying God...and all that other stuff I don't remember saying.  IDK :S
 
And the lamb thing, it didn't have to be for something, it was just that: a sacrifice.  By killing an unblemished lamb, you were giving up something important for God.  And as Contemplator said, this was perfected by Jesus's sacrifice as the truly perfect lamb.  Sorry, I don't know much about this, but I hope I at least explained it a little bit.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Aug. 27, 2013 at 10:13 pm

"I think the point I was trying to make was that our own combined sins would equal a death penalty."
 
Because now a guy who murdered a million people is at the same level as a boy who lied about minor things a million times. Yay.
 
"Constantly denying God..."
 
Meh.
 
"And the lamb thing, it didn't have to be for something, it was just that: a sacrifice."

 
Therefore, pointless and useless.
 
"By killing an unblemished lamb, you were giving up something important for God."
 
Oh, so if I cared about God even more, I would sacrifice my chickens too. And then pigs. And then cows. Maybe horses next. Or, hey, I'LL SACRIFICE MY CHILDREN.
 
"this was perfected..."
 
So it wasn't perfect before, it was pointless, it wasted something useful, and it was an excuse to kill an innocent animal. Okai, ya.
 
"... by Jesus's sacrifice as the truly perfect lamb."
 
So all the pointless lambs really /were/ pointless. Cuz in reality all we had to do is kill this guy named Jesus and somehow we're forgiven. Seems legit.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Izuo.This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 10:32 pm

... Flo, your post with the wierd spacing killed me....... I just couldn't read it.... 
*

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
KatsK replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 10:41 pm

Flo: But they're all part of the same thing: God, creator of heaven and earth.
And it's not killing "random things"; it's showing their appreciation for the food and life that God provides to them, by sacrifice, as decreed in whatever Leviticus law it is (Leviticus is basically my default answer now). Also, God made clothes out of lamb skin when Adam and Eve first sinned (Genesis 3:21), and later, Abraham sacrificed Isaac as a test, in a precursor to Jesus. Then God saved Isaac, so he was unharmed and put a ram in its place. Ahh, the joys of scripture.
Also, it's foreshadowing for Jesus being the ultimate sacrifice, but I won't expand on that as several others have brought it up.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Aug. 28, 2013 at 8:21 pm

Izuo: Sorry!! ^^;
 
Katsk: They're each /part/ of the same thing, they are each /different/ parts of the same thing, therefore the whole "Jesus IS God" thing is false.
 
"it's showing their appreciation... by sacrifice..."
 
By killing random things. I mean, seriously, a lamb is pretty random. A chicken? No. Pig? No. Cow? Nope. A lamb. A flipping lamb.
 
Never read Leviticus. I may go do that later. As for now, I've read the wikipedia entry on it. All I've got is "sacrifice animals, no se.x, priests". What?
 
Honestly, this is getting entirely off topic. I'm still trying to figure out what makes Jesus so special, how a story where he rose from the freaking DEAD is considered reasonable, and how it's even possible to be 100% God and 100% human at the same freaking time.
 
We're arguing about lambs right now. It's pointless. You can sacrifice as many animals as you want, I say it's stupid, it's my opinion, and that's the end of that. Let us move on from dead baby sheep carcasses offered up to god as a form of appreciation and grace cuz apparently God likes that, let us focus on the guy who's name is the title of this thread, oki? :3 *

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Aug. 28, 2013 at 8:27 pm

(okai, lemme see if this fixes the spacing from before Izuo)
 
I’m amazed no one said anything about the me being tipsy part XD Anyways~
 
Katsk:
 
"The trinity. I like thinking of it like a shamrock. As the story goes, St. Patrick held up a shamrock and used it to teach the people who were imprisoning him, I believe, about God. Three parts, one whole. Green awesomeness."
 
Again, one leaf can't be the other. And if the whole thing is God and Jesus is one of the leaves, then Jesus still isn't God. He's /part/ of God.
 
"Also, the sacrifice was to show how they cared. It wasn't just a Jewish thing; Greeks and other people who I never learned about sacrificed food to their god(s). It's showing your devotion and respect and thanks."
 
Uh-huh, I'm just asking whyyy. Like, why we kill random things to show appreciation? Kinda violent, no?
 
Read:
 
"Regarding the egg analogy, the egg ITSELF it God, so yes, Jesus is God"
 
No, by that logic Jesus is a third of God. He still isn't God.
 
"And emphasis on the "analogy", we do not worship an egg."
 
Yeah I know, I was just going crazy yesterday XD
 
"A part of the book "The Shack" (awesome :3) kind of explains better why Jesus died for our sins:
 
So, there's this father, and he's told that he must pick two of his daughters to go to heaven and two to go to he.ll.  He's extremely torn by this, he can't condemn his own children.  He asks if he can take his children's place so he doesn't have to condemn any.  The book itself is a lot better than my summary, but..yeah.  Imagining yourself in that scenario helps you understand Jesus's actions."
 
I'm not arguing why Jesus died or anything, in the small chance it did happen I'd understand why, I'm just saying the whole story about him is ridiculous, he's not God, and as I said before, he was more or less a glorified prophet.
 
"Ok, honestly, on a daily basis, we do things that we know aren't right and push God away.  These things individually do not warrant the death penalty, but combined?  Us constantly denying God, even though the very life we live is a gift from Him?...and this times the six billion people on earth, yes, I think that adds up to, at the very least, a death penalty.  And someone needed to take that punishment, but God couldn't bear to lose us, so He took it Himself."
 
So we're not even individuals anymore, no, God combines all of us and then judges us as a whole. OKAI, WOW, FUNNNN.
 
"I agree, I don't love the egg analogy, but you know what?  We're trying to explain the nature of the supreme creator of the universe.  Sorry if it doesn't fit into a nice little sentence regarding a common food item."
 
Wat Des said.
 
Superhero:
 
"Actually, you just defined the 'perfect' I'm talking about."
 
But you just said he was perfect according to the bible >.>;
 
"Could you give me an example?"
 
A twisted guy thinks serial killers are perfect because they rid the world of unnecessary people. A dou.che believes perfect is when a girl is blonde, skinny, curvy, and all around beautiful, it doesn't matter what their personality is. An algalmatophiliac believes that mannequins are perfect. when you love someone deeply you'll think that they're perfect, even if they're nothing like God. I can seriously go on and on with this.
 
"Do you actually know what I was talking about, or were you seriously confused about that? I can't tell."
 
No I actually remember XD I used to go to church school ya know. It was just a really long time ago.
 
"The reason he waited three days was because Jesus had told his desciples that he'd rebuild the temple in three days. He was talking about himself when he said that."
 
Why. Why did he say three days? Why not two days. Or five days. Or an hour. Or a week. Why specifically three days? It's very arbitrary and kinda just wastes time.
 
"I already explained why to you. Because God loves us."
 
I meant why kill a lamb.
 
Contemplator:
 
"God didn't allow just any lamb to be a sacrifice, only the ones with out blemishes. It was just a symbol pointing towards Jesus Christ. In other words, the sacrificial lambs were more for symbolism. The blood of the lamb didn't save them from their sins, only Jesus' blood."
 
Oki, it's a symbol. That we kill. We kill a pretty lamb because we wanna make a symbol. It didn't even save them or do anything. Ya. So let's just kill this lamb cuz God will appreciate a dead carcass.
 
"When Jesus took upon himself the iniquities of the world, he didn't just take the iniquites from that moment in time. He took all of our sins, present, future and past, on himself. The sacrificial lambs were just representing that coming event.
 
Make sense?"
 
Uh-huh. Oki. Ya. Kill the pretty lamb. To reprent Jesus. Just to represent him. Ya. Nothing else. Nothing else really important. Let's just represent Jesus with this lamb. Ya. Cuz God lieks dead carcass lamb. Maybe it's his fetish. God has a dead carcass lamb fetish gais. (I'm joking don't take that too seriously, sheesh >.> )

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 31, 2013 at 12:37 pm

Three pages now.

*tries not to have a nervous breakdown*

You can do this half.note...

*deep breath*

Okay, rather than go through and quote everyone I’ll just do some general statements:


The Trinity:

This is probably one of the most confusing and mysterious teachings of the Bible.

Here’s how I understand it:
Basically, there is only one God. But there are different manifestations or personifications (whichever word you want to use) of God.

First there’s the Father. He’s the one who is the Creator and who we can’t see. I think that he is in fact outside of our universe in the sense that he transcends space and time.

Then there’s the Son. This is Jesus. He is the physical form of God in this universe. And not just at his birth and until he died on the cross; but it is my belief that some of the angels in the Old Testament were really just Jesus. And of course Jesus is still in our universe today as a human, just not here on Earth. At the moment he’s in the Most Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary involved in the Investigative Judgement of the dead and the living. I’ll speak more on Jesus later in my post.

Next, the Holy Spirit. This is really just the spirit of Christ on Earth.

Here’s what Jesus says about the Holy Spirit:
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.” (John 16:7-14)

Also:
“Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 2:13-16)

The Holy Ghost is “the Comforter” or “the mind of Christ” who convicts us. Only by the help of the Holy Ghost can we understand the Bible or spiritual things.


While I don’t think we can ever fully understand how this relationship works, I don’t think we really need to worry about it. Just have faith in what the Bible does tell us about God. After all, He is infinite while we are finite. I don’t think we will ever completely understand God, even if we searched for the rest of eternity.

I like how Ellen White puts it…

“It is impossible for finite minds fully to comprehend the character or the works of the Infinite One. To the keenest intellect, the most highly educated mind, that holy Being must ever remain clothed in mystery. "Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?" Job 11:7, 8.
The apostle Paul exclaims, "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!" Romans 11:33. But though "clouds and darkness are round about Him," "righteousness and judgment are the foundation of His throne." Psalm 97:2, R.V. We can so far comprehend His dealings with us, and the motives by which He is actuated, that we may discern boundless love and mercy united to infinite power. We can understand as much of His purposes as it is for our good to know; and beyond this we must still trust the hand that is omnipotent, the heart that is full of love…
If it were possible for created beings to attain to a full understanding of God and His works, then, having reached this point, there would be for them no further discovery of truth, no growth in knowledge, no further development of mind or heart. God would no longer be supreme; and man, having reached the limit of knowledge and attainment, would cease to advance. Let us thank God that it is not so. God is infinite; in Him are "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." Colossians 2:3. And to all eternity men may be ever searching, ever learning, and yet never exhaust the treasures of His wisdom, His goodness, and His power.”
(Steps to Christ; pgs. 105-106,109)


The Sacrificial system:

As a Seventh-day Adventist I no doubt know a lot on this subject. While most Christians tend to ignore the Old Testament we find it just as important as the New. I’ve heard many a sermon and ready many a book on this topic.

Here goes…

When sin entered this world so did death. Because we humans had transgressed God’s law, the only way to save us from the death we deserved was for God to come as a human and live a sinless life. The sacrificial lambs, goats, bulls, and even birds (yes, it wasn’t just lambs :P) all pointed to the ultimate sacrifice: Jesus. For those living before Jesus came, sacrifices were necessary to show their belief in the promised Messiah. The act of sacrificing did not save them, only Christ could, but since he had not yet come it was necessary that blood must be spilled to point to his coming.

Bleh. I’m probably not making that much sense right now. Let me just go find some Bible verses…

“The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”
(Hebrews 9:8-14)

“For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me.” (Hebrew 10:4-5)

“For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.” (Hebrews 7:26-27)

Flo, hopefully you’re paying attention to all this because you seem to have a lot of confusion about how the sacrificial system works. Feel free to drop any questions on me. :)


Jesus:

I basically just read through the whole book of Hebrews and picked out the verses that explained the nature of Christ best (Hebrews speaks mostly on that subject):

“For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.” (Hebrews 2:16-18)

“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” (Hebrews 3:14-15)

“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” (Hebrews 5:7-9)


Okay, and that's all I can think to say at the moment, so...

God bless. ♥

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 31, 2013 at 12:39 pm

Three pages now.
 
*tries not to have a nervous breakdown*
 
You can do this half.note...
 
*deep breath*
 
Okay, rather than go through and quote everyone I’ll just do some general statements:
 
 
The Trinity:
 
This is probably one of the most confusing and mysterious teachings of the Bible.
 
Here’s how I understand it:
Basically, there is only one God. But there are different manifestations or personifications (whichever word you want to use) of God.
 
First there’s the Father. He’s the one who is the Creator and who we can’t see. I think that he is in fact outside of our universe in the sense that he transcends space and time.
 
Then there’s the Son. This is Jesus. He is the physical form of God in this universe. And not just at his birth and until he died on the cross; but it is my belief that some of the angels in the Old Testament were really just Jesus. And of course Jesus is still in our universe today as a human, just not here on Earth. At the moment he’s in the Most Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary involved in the Investigative Judgement of the dead and the living. I’ll speak more on Jesus later in my post.
 
Next, the Holy Spirit. This is really just the spirit of Christ on Earth.
 
Here’s what Jesus says about the Holy Spirit:
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.” (John 16:7-14)
 
Also:
“Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 2:13-16)
 
The Holy Ghost is “the Comforter” or “the mind of Christ” who convicts us. Only by the help of the Holy Ghost can we understand the Bible or spiritual things.
 
 
While I don’t think we can ever fully understand how this relationship works, I don’t think we really need to worry about it. Just have faith in what the Bible does tell us about God. After all, He is infinite while we are finite. I don’t think we will ever completely understand God, even if we searched for the rest of eternity.
 
I like how Ellen White puts it…
 
“It is impossible for finite minds fully to comprehend the character or the works of the Infinite One. To the keenest intellect, the most highly educated mind, that holy Being must ever remain clothed in mystery. "Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than h-ll; what canst thou know?" Job 11:7, 8.
The apostle Paul exclaims, "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!" Romans 11:33. But though "clouds and darkness are round about Him," "righteousness and judgment are the foundation of His throne." Psalm 97:2, R.V. We can so far comprehend His dealings with us, and the motives by which He is actuated, that we may discern boundless love and mercy united to infinite power. We can understand as much of His purposes as it is for our good to know; and beyond this we must still trust the hand that is omnipotent, the heart that is full of love…
If it were possible for created beings to attain to a full understanding of God and His works, then, having reached this point, there would be for them no further discovery of truth, no growth in knowledge, no further development of mind or heart. God would no longer be supreme; and man, having reached the limit of knowledge and attainment, would cease to advance. Let us thank God that it is not so. God is infinite; in Him are "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." Colossians 2:3. And to all eternity men may be ever searching, ever learning, and yet never exhaust the treasures of His wisdom, His goodness, and His power.”
(Steps to Christ; pgs. 105-106,109)
 
 
The Sacrificial system:
 
As a Seventh-day Adventist I no doubt know a lot on this subject. While most Christians tend to ignore the Old Testament we find it just as important as the New. I’ve heard many a sermon and ready many a book on this topic.
 
Here goes…
 
When sin entered this world so did death. Because we humans had transgressed God’s law, the only way to save us from the death we deserved was for God to come as a human and live a sinless life. The sacrificial lambs, goats, bulls, and even birds (yes, it wasn’t just lambs :P) all pointed to the ultimate sacrifice: Jesus. For those living before Jesus came, sacrifices were necessary to show their belief in the promised Messiah. The act of sacrificing did not save them, only Christ could, but since he had not yet come it was necessary that blood must be spilled to point to his coming.
 
Bleh. I’m probably not making that much sense right now. Let me just go find some Bible verses…
 
“The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”
(Hebrews 9:8-14)
 
“For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me.” (Hebrew 10:4-5)
 
“For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.” (Hebrews 7:26-27)
 
Flo, hopefully you’re paying attention to all this because you seem to have a lot of confusion about how the sacrificial system works. Feel free to drop any questions on me. :)
 
 
Jesus:
 
I basically just read through the whole book of Hebrews and picked out the verses that explained the nature of Christ best (Hebrews speaks mostly on that subject):
 
“For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.” (Hebrews 2:16-18)
 
“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” (Hebrews 3:14-15)
 
“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” (Hebrews 5:7-9)
 
 
Okay, and that's all I can think to say at the moment, so...
 
God bless. ♥

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
readaholicThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 31, 2013 at 3:33 pm

*golf-claps for halfnote*
First of all, impressive :D and thank you for clearing things up.
 
I loved how you explained the Trinity, and it made me think of an analogy that might work:
Let's say there's a Teen Ink user with three accounts:  The actual owner of the site, a modlerator, and a regular user.  The user itself is God, and the three accounts are like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  They're all , but like half.note said, they're all 'personifications" of God.  There's probably more I could elaborate on this, but it's already probably full of holes as it is.
 
I know you probably didn't mean this totally literally, half.note, but I still have to say that I don't think Chritians "ignore" the Old Testament.  I'm not sure if you agree, but I think the New Testament is perhaps more important (as the Old Testament points to it).  We did a Bible study at our parish (a general overview of the the Bible, the more narrative or 'important' parts) and literally 1/8 of it was New Testament.  There have also been a few on specific OT books.  But I'm not trying to start another "one stupid sentence" argument (see, "church isn't fun").  But I will agree that, as Catholics, we don't place as much emphasis on the Bible itself as we should.
 
And I really like your idea of Jesus coming to earth as angels beforehand.  Not saying it's discredible without BIble verses (*cough*hypocrisy) (that was aimed at myeslf) but, if there's anything....you would know XD.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Superhero_Fan replied...
Sept. 1, 2013 at 5:20 pm

Geez! I didn't realize it'd be this long! Flo, did they answer all of your questions, or do I still need to elaboate? 'Cuz I'm not sure I can read all of that.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread

Launch Teen Ink Chat
Site Feedback