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Destinee posted this thread...
Aug. 25, 2013 at 9:50 pm

Agree? Disagree?
 
"Let justice be done though the heavens fall." Fiat justitia ruat caelum.
 
Variation: "Let justice be done, though the world perish." ~ Ferdinand I. 

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Izuo.This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 12:32 pm

Disagree... Actually it depends on the situation.  

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Jade.I.AmThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm

Once again, I don't understand >.>

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Breece6This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 1:41 pm

I agree, justice is important, but I think that some people's ideas of what "justice' entails are wrong.
 
For example, eternal d.amnation as a punishment for a finite sin is something I don't think is right.

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 2:32 pm

"For example, eternal d.amnation as a punishment for a finite sin is something I don't think is right."
 
Thank you. In fact it is a punishment infinitely worse than any crime commited.

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 4:29 pm

From a religious/eternal perspective? Mercy supercedes justice.
 
From a secular point of view- I agree, given that without a concept of justice human society would probably fall apart.
 
The biggest problems, though, arise from trying to determine what is just and what is not.

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Destinee replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 4:59 pm

"For example, eternal d.amnation as a punishment for a finite sin is something I don't think is right."
 
Not that I disagree, but actions are judged by intentions, and an eternal intention of disobedience (such as "if God existed I still wouldn't worship Him") can arguably have an eternal punishment. 

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Destinee replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 5:26 pm

Jade: 
 
There's a quote that goes like, "Let justice be done [let there be justice] though the world persih [even if that means that everything is destroyed".
 
E.g. imagine that everybody in the entire world is a murderer. "Let justice be done" i.e. punish all of them "even though the world punish" regardless of the costs. 
 
Make sense? :) So do you agree or disagree?

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Jade.I.AmThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 5:42 pm

Estoy de acuerdo...pienso o.O

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stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 7:37 pm

I disagree. A system of morality based upon justice will only get you so far. It's largely defunct.

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Superhero_FanThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 8:45 pm

Disagree. It's not right. I mean, (this example is that of an AU where superheroes and villains are real) what if a superhero went after the villain who was getting away instead of saving the innocent bystander because he wanted to enforce justice? Sorry I couldn't think of a non-AU example.

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Jade.I.AmThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 8:50 pm

I change my answer >.> I think there's a balance :D

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Destinee replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 10:20 pm

Jade: 
 
I don't know... what that means.... is that Spanish? 
 
SDD: 
 
I want to applaud you. You have virtually managed to be not-rude, I guess since Quantum kinda exploded on you (or maybe it was me? hopefully me). I'll still ignore your posts if they're rude (regardless of the validity of what you're saying), but I realise that it takes a lot of self-control and effort to improve yourself, so well done mon ami :) Well done. :) We can be besties again :P
 
Anyway. "A system of morality based upon justice will only get you so far. It's largely defunct." Can you expand on this? 
 
Superhero: 
 
LOL at your username and reply matching up :P
 
I think you bring up a good point, and one that I was hoping we {as a group, not just you and I lol} could discuss: Does justice always entail punishment? 
 
I think not. However, from what little I understand of Christian theology, I think a basic premise is that for God, justice would be to punish us all by death (hence Jesus' sacrffice). 
 
Even disregarding the Christianity thing, do you guys think justice always translated into punishment or reward? 
 
And what do you think of the practicality of running a system of practical justice (i.e. justice in action vs. ideal justice) where we are always the most just? Is that practical? Is that possible? 

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Destinee replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 10:21 pm

Imagine: 
 
"The biggest problems, though, arise from trying to determine what is just and what is not". 
 
I actually disagree. I think that we may disagree on, let's say, is it just to punish this person for 5 vs 10 years or whatever, but that is a bit trivial philosophically, no? But in terms of actual justice - this requires punishment, this does not - is it actually that hard? 
 
"Mercy supercedes justice" 
What do you maen by this? Could you explain please? :) 

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Superhero_FanThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 10:32 pm

Destinee: Haha, I don't do that a lot, I just came up with it and couldn't think of an alternative. And I'd love to discuss Justice and Punishment, just can't do it tonight. I'll get on tomorrow though!

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Destinee replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 10:33 pm

Great! I look forward to it XD 

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stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 26, 2013 at 11:11 pm

"You have virtually managed to be not-rude, I guess since Quantum kinda exploded on you"
 
Really? I haven't personally noticed any change in my posts, and in any case I doubt Quantum has much to do with it, but it's possible there's a subconscious bias slipping in somewhere.
 
"Can you expand on this?"
 
A lot of the time, enforcing justice (in the sense of being fair) simply doesn't help a situation. If a serial murderer was captured who tortured his victims to death, we wouldn't torture the serial murderer to death (the fair thing to do) because we know that's wrong and won't help us at all. In this case, justice doesn't serve - instead, we rely on doing what comes out best for most (utilitarianism). The serial murderer will be locked up for the rest of their life anyways, so torturing them does nothing but incur more pain.
 
A certain saying about fighting fire with fire comes to mind. tl;dr, my beliefs can be summed up in a motto I hold dearly: "It isn't about what's fair, it's about what's right."

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Breece6This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 1:46 pm

Destinee:
 
I think I can agree with you there, but the thing is, I believe that if God just freakin' showed up in front of everybody and just...
 
explained everything.  I mean, like, everything.  Like if everyone in the universe could see why x is wrong and we were all just enlightened, 
 
I don't think anyone would sin.  Not while truly knowing how much God loves them.

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CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 4:57 pm

^I think the whole point of the story of Adam and Eve is to show that this isn't true. 
 
Also, where the heck were you all Summer? O.o

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Superhero_FanThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 27, 2013 at 5:03 pm

Destinee: Sorry, I can't join the justice=punishment debate till sunday. My grandparents don't have wi-fi.*

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