Facebook Activity



Teen Ink on Twitter

Home > Forums > Teen Ink Forums > Philosophy and Thought > Thread of Interesting Stuff

Teen Ink Forums

Lively discussions with other teens
   
Next thread » « Previous thread

Thread of Interesting Stuff

DoctorbugThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 7, 2013 at 12:31 am

Collin: regarding the whole serpent vs sat.an thingy. It's interesting to note that the Hebrew words used for that part of the text are literally translated "the shining one". I guess everyone thought it would just be easier to translate it "serpant" :/
 
So really, we don't even know if he took the form of a snake.
 
Stuntddude: ah, dude, all I wanna do is hug you and say, "it's ok." Don't get so caught up in searching for the truth that you miss the truth. Step back, look at life, and ask yourself: "What's important?"
 
Personally, for me, what's important is that I keep myself healthy, both physically and mentally, I love God, and I love everyone around me. Life is simple.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
KatsK replied...
Aug. 7, 2013 at 1:15 am

DrBug: I agree in that whole loving-God-and-His-creations deal, but how do you know that you actually came from Japeth? Are there tangible geneologies that we could see or something? And how do you know that guy didn't lie or fill in data that didn't actually exist? (I'm trying to phrase this as gently as possible, for the record.)
It's rather hard to back something up when all you have is your word.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 7, 2013 at 8:59 am

DrBug: Sorry for upsetting you. Looking back that post sounded pretty rude. However, you must admit that it is a pretty extraordinary claim and while you don't need me to believe it or buy it if you do want me to more evidence would be needed. That aside, I'd just like to apologize for the tone of my previous post.
 
"I was making note that I had traced my family ancestory as far back as it could possibly go. There are 99.99% accurate records that I am a desendent of the McGreggor Clan, which I think is just too cool."
 
I agree that this is cool.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 7, 2013 at 9:01 am

^^I agree with KatsK. As I said before you certainly could believe in this without my approval, but at risk of offending you again, I feel like you should have higher standards of proof. Or perhaps I am overestimating the strength of your claims.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 7, 2013 at 9:05 am

sorry for triple posting, but...
 
DrBug: " Don't get so caught up in searching for the truth that you miss the truth. Step back, look at life, and ask yourself: "What's important?" "
 
This is actually quite wise and an important thing to do. For me anyway, though, part of what is important is finding the truth. I have a deep-rooted desire to find it. 

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Destinee replied...
Aug. 7, 2013 at 6:50 pm

99 Names & Attributes of God in Islam: 
The Preface is boring.. skip that.
 
ghazali.org/books/Ghazali-99-Name-of-God.pdf

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 8, 2013 at 9:02 am

Destinee:
 
"It's actually culture this time"
 
Ah, the wonders of culture...
 
DoctorBug:
 
"ah, dude, all I wanna do is hug you and say, "it's ok." Don't get so caught up in searching for the truth that you miss the truth. Step back, look at life, and ask yourself: "What's important?""
 
What a wonderfully relevant way to dismiss criticism! No, seriously, actually consider what I said, even if you do find it offensive. Your post has nothing to do with anything I've posted in this thread.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
DoctorbugThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 8, 2013 at 6:46 pm

Stuntddude:
 
No, I did consider what you said, stuntddude :)
Only I don't consider Noah being my ancestor as evidence for anything. I consider everything else as evidence that Noah is my ancestor. Think of Noah being my ancestor as a side affect to my other beliefs. I don't need you to agree with it, and for me to argue it's validity would cause me to get into a huge descussion/argument about a million other things that at first glance have nothing to do with Noah.
 
As for my last post, I was just commenting on how, when you have an argument about the truth every day (there's no harm in having one every so often), but when you have one every day, you can get lost in them. Arguments within arguments within arguments. Eventually one must lose perspective of why they argue in the first place. I argue because it is relavent to my every day life. But what happens when arguing becomes your every day life?
 
Noah being my ancestor isn't really that important to my every day life. I believe it, true, but I'm not really going to argue about it because ultimately, it doesn't change anything. You believing Noah is your ancestor, isn't going to get you into heaven, or make you a better person, so my convincing you of it isnt really that great of a use of my time.
 
Quantum: it's alright, I kinda snapped myself when I should be more patient. Yes, it is an extraordinary claim, but as I was saying to stuntddude, it is a beleif that stems from my other beliefs. So the same proof for the accuracy of the bible, would be my proof of Noah being my ancestor.
 
"I have a deep-rooted desire to find it [the truth]"
 
I think most people do. I personally do too. But what is the point of finding truth? Why do it? For the sake of truth itself? Or because it affects us? I would say the same to you as I did to stuntddude. When it comes to truth, I look for it untill I find it, and then I share it. I have found that the bible holds the greatest truth, but I am not going to spend every second of my life second guessing it or looking for a greater truth. I might occassionally ask myself the question, "Is there a greater truth, if so, what is it?", but most other times, I give my beliefs the benefit of the doubt, and that's called faith. Untill the truth proves itself.
 
And I've gone on sermonizing...to an atheist/agnostic.
 
[facepalm]
 
KK: If you're asking for the logic...I know I came from Noah, because I believe in the Bible. I know I came from Japheth, because all the European peoples after the Flood are his decendents, and my ancestors came from Europe.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 8, 2013 at 7:18 pm

DrBug: I see your point, but I think the difference between us is this. You have found something that is very fulfilling to you as a form of truth. Whether you admit it or not, it is not something that you can be 100% certain of, but you're okay with that because it has the effects you desire in what could be the truth.
 
Me, I'm not willing to stop questioning for several reasons:
 
1. I find faith very hard, I'm unwillling to stop and say, this is emotionally fulfilling, so I'll have faith that it is the truth.
 
2. While I say I want to find the truth (and I do to a degree) what I love even more is discovering that truth. I want to keep questioning, keep discovering. That is what excites me. Because when we discover the truth, if we can, (pure) science is over, discovery is over. And that would kind of s.uck.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
CollinF replied...
Aug. 8, 2013 at 7:27 pm

h ttp://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=MG-x6lJVaZk
 
This is an extremely interesting documentary. If there was ever a man who was truly the epitome of evil, it was H.H. Holmes. This man was history's great evil genius; it seems like the thought of his crimes was so terrifying history's greatly forgotten him. I first heard his story just a few weeks ago. I still have trouble grappling with the fact that people like this actually exist. :(
 
It gets really interesting at part 3, but I watched it all cause it seemed so fascinating. :) . . . :/

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
DoctorbugThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 8, 2013 at 11:28 pm

Quantum: yeah, I'd say you probably have me about pinned down :D I'll just add that I find the bible to not only be emotionally fulfilling, but intellectually, as well :P
 
“Because when we discover the truth, if we can, (pure) science is over, discovery is over. And that would kind of s.uck.”
 
Yeah, it would. It would. But then, I kind of see it as a thing where there's Truth, and then there are truths. Scientific laws would be “truths” while things like laws of logic would be “Truth”. Make sense? I don't think there will ever be a limit to the amount of “truths” in the universe to discovery, for there will always be variety. But I should think there is only one, finite Truth.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 9, 2013 at 1:30 am

But your when your "truths" don't agree with your "Truth" you have a problem.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 9, 2013 at 3:53 am

"I argue because it is relavent to my every day life."
 
But not, I am sorry to say, relevant to the current discussion.
 
 
See, there's a fundamental difference in attitude between us, it seems. You may be happy settling down with whatever beliefs make you feel fulfilled, but what's fulfilling to me is the search for truth, and that involves regularly second-guessing myself, doubting even the things I am most sure of (in some cases, especially those things). It puts me on my toes and ready to actively search for answers, rather than waiting for answers to come to me.
 
"I kind of see it as a thing where there's Truth, and then there are truths."
 
Is there any particular reason you believe this, or is it just another thing that's purely contingent on the bible?

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
DoctorbugThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 9, 2013 at 11:13 am

Quantum: Quite so. And that, mon ami, is why I'm a Creationist. I believe the "truths" do agree with the "Truth". If they didn't, one of them is incorrect.
 
Stuntddude: you are correct in saying we have a fundamental difference in attitude. But I want to ask, why is the search for truth fulfilling? Is it what you find, or the act of finding?
 
"Is there any particular reason you believe this, or is it just another thing that's purely contingent on the bible?"
 
Well everything is contingent on God, nothing can exist without him, so ultimately, yes, the belief is contingent on the bible. However, I don't see how having a secular view of the world would make you any less inclined to have the same belief.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Destinee replied...
Aug. 9, 2013 at 2:40 pm

"See, there's a fundamental difference in attitude between us, it seems. You may be happy settling down with whatever beliefs make you feel fulfilled, but what's fulfilling to me is the search for truth, and that involves regularly second-guessing myself, doubting even the things I am most sure of (in some cases, especially those things). It puts me on my toes and ready to actively search for answers, rather than waiting for answers to come to me."
 
Actually, it makes you two far more similar than I would've thought. Haha. You both (or all, I guess, cuz Quantum's included) base your beliefs on what is most fulfilling/exciting/gratifying. For DrBug, that means stopping when she thinks she has found the fulfilling Truth. For Quantum and you, its most gratifying to not stop and continue searching on. 
 
Either way, it's less about knowledge itself and more about gratification from that knowledge (thru achieving it or thru searching for it). 
 
Cheers.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 9, 2013 at 3:21 pm

Doctorbug:
 
"I believe the "truths" do agree with the "Truth". If they didn't, one of them is incorrect."
 
That or your "Truth" is incorrect, but you would never consider that possibility, would you? Not even if countless truths disagree with your "Truth," you wouldn't question it?
 
"why is the search for truth fulfilling? Is it what you find, or the act of finding?"
 
Both.
 
"I don't see how having a secular view of the world would make you any less inclined to have the same belief."
 
Let's see, uh, because there's no evidence or justification for it? That's what I was asking you for in the first place.
 
Destinee:
 
"For DrBug, that means stopping when she thinks she has found the fulfilling Truth. For Quantum and you, its most gratifying to not stop and continue searching on."
 
Yes, and I'll point out that one of those is philosophy and the other is not.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 9, 2013 at 3:28 pm

DrBug: "That or your "Truth" is incorrect, but you would never consider that possibility, would you? Not even if countless truths disagree with your "Truth," you wouldn't question it? "
 
Exactly as stuntddude said. This is why your worldview baffles me. I get why one might want the certainty provided by religion, but holding on to what is for all intents and purposes a guess in the face of real, objective truths is absurd.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Destinee replied...
Aug. 9, 2013 at 3:32 pm

"Yes, and I'll point out that one of those is philosophy and the other is not."
 
Epistemology is philosophy.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
DoctorbugThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 9, 2013 at 4:46 pm

"Exactly as stuntddude said. This is why your worldview baffles me. I get why one might want the certainty provided by religion, but holding on to what is for all intents and purposes a guess in the face of real, objective truths is absurd."
 
Ah, Quantum, I could say the exact same to you. That is the nature of a worldview. We all wear colored glasses, there is no such thing as objective evidence. I literally see the world differently from you. Where you see chaos, I see design. Where you see evolution, I see creation.
 
It used to puzzle me, just as you are puzzled now, how the evolutionist could possibly ignore all the obvious evidence in support of creation. I used to think the only way for an atheist to deny the evidence, was for them to be a liar and knowingly ignore the evidence. But since then I have realized that it is the worldview that colors the way we see the world, and now I don't really blame anyone for teaching what they honestly believe themselves.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
DoctorbugThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Aug. 9, 2013 at 4:49 pm

"""I believe the "truths" do agree with the "Truth". If they didn't, one of them is incorrect.
  
That or your "Truth" is incorrect, but you would never consider that possibility, would you? Not even if countless truths disagree with your "Truth," you wouldn't question it?"
 
Let me rephrase my original statement.
 
I believe the "truths" do agree with the "Truth". If one of them (either the Truth or the truths) did not agree with each other, than one of them (either the Truth or the truths) is be incorrect.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread

Launch Teen Ink Chat
Site Feedback