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Pro Life vs Pro Choice

CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 1:36 am

Jubilex:
 
Ineteresting. But the fact that it may not be sentient at the time it is killed doesn't really matter if it's on the inevitable track to become so unless somebody interferes, right?
 
For instance, is it lawful to kill someone who is in a coma if they're destined to awake in 9 months?

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PotatoeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 2:30 am

DES I NEED YOU TO MAKE ME HATE THE KITE RUNNER. In other news...

*facepalms then headdesks* Okay, you took the wrong impression when I said pointless. I very much appreciate my laws, tyvm, I'm just saying they're a human invention there for 'ethical' reasons, because humans for some reason have ethics. It's less pointles and more why-do-they-exist.

What Jubliex said, and maybe the fetus will be a miscarriage, I dunno. (Also about the shooting thing, the honest response would be id probably shoot them outta reflex ^^; )

Ay hey, let's go kill babies nao //shot/ (It's a sad thing I enjoy dead baby jokes, I'm so heartless.)

Not but seriously, the fact still remains that there's a line between an infant and a fetus. The adoption thing is still not working out btw. I'm saying unless there is hard evidence that shows that a fetus is sentient, capable of feeling pain, and other such things, I'm gonna be pro choice until I decide swallowing spe.rm is cannibalism.

Des, I love how you don't care at all about people who get pregnant with an unwanted baby, if it was only one mistake or several XD

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PotatoeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 2:30 am

DES I NEED YOU TO MAKE ME HATE THE KITE RUNNER. In other news...
 
*facepalms then headdesks* Okay, you took the wrong impression when I said pointless. I very much appreciate my laws, tyvm, I'm just saying they're a human invention there for 'ethical' reasons, because humans for some reason have ethics. It's less pointles and more why-do-they-exist.
 
What Jubliex said, and maybe the fetus will be a miscarriage, I dunno. (Also about the shooting thing, the honest response would be id probably shoot them outta reflex ^^; )
 
Ay hey, let's go kill babies nao //shot/ (It's a sad thing I enjoy dead baby jokes, I'm so heartless.)
 
Not but seriously, the fact still remains that there's a line between an infant and a fetus. The adoption thing is still not working out btw. I'm saying unless there is hard evidence that shows that a fetus is sentient, capable of feeling pain, and other such things, I'm gonna be pro choice until I decide swallowing spe.rm is cannibalism.
 
Des, I love how you don't care at all about people who get pre.gnant with an unwanted baby, if it was only one mistake or several XD

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Destinee replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 2:46 am

Flo: 
 
The Kite Runner? Ugh. Do we have to mention that book? 
 
I know some people who have expected children that they didn't want. It's not that I don't sympathise. I understand that a mistake is a mistake, I feel for them, I really do, but I don't think that justifies doing something that is immoral. If I knew someone very close to me was having this dilemma, I would support them through it, I wouldn't judge them, but I wouldn't support murder. End of. Emotion can't take place of morals. 

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PotatoeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 2:54 am

Yes. Cuz it made me almost cry and i don't like crying. e.e;

*shrugs* Well, if it's early enough i don't really think it'd be murder, it's just be removing a clump of cells from the body. 'Course, if i had a friend who was already late into the pregnancy id try to talk her outta an ab.ortion, though i wouldn't condemn her for life if she went and had one anyways.

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PotatoeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 2:54 am

Yes. Cuz it made me almost cry and i don't like crying. e.e;
 
*shrugs* Well, if it's early enough i don't really think it'd be murder, it's just be removing a clump of cells from the body. 'Course, if i had a friend who was already late into the pre.gnancy id try to talk her outta an ab.ortion, though i wouldn't condemn her for life if she went and had one anyways.

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JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 3:08 am

CollinF:
 
I think there's a difference between fetus and coma patient.
 
I can understand the position of considering abor.tion murder. It's not my personal stance, but I can definitely see why it's yours.
 
Dess:
 
I can understand your position on not being sympathetic towards the parents (there are ways to avoid pre.gnancy afterall, and you can go by the stance of if you're not willing to accept that you might become preg.nant, then don't have se.x), but what about the babies? Some might consider it merciful to not have the child (and to stop the process while it still isn't sentient), than to bring it into a harsh life, where it might not be taken care of or loved. Imagine how terribly that could affect someone. I know adoption is still an option and that would definitely make sense to do in these circumstances.

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PotatoeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 3:10 am

Adoption is a very viable option, that i agree and understand. However, the numbers. Aren't. Working. adfjalksdja.

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JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 3:16 am

Yeah, exactly. If everyone who didn't want to keep their child gave it up for adoption, then not only would our population rise a lot faster, but wouldn't we run out of wanting families?
 
Prevention is the best way to go (safe se.x, education, etc) to help reduce this being a problem, but there'll still be "mistakes" and realistically, people will still have unprotected se.x, or not use contra.ception properly. 

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CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 3:17 am

Jubilex:
 
I don't mean to pester, but why? Thanks for the understanding tone. I see where you're coming from too.
 
But would you agree that since there's gray area we should treat them as if they are? I mean, it's an awfully big risk to take based on a hunch, right?

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PotatoeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 3:22 am

Not only that, but if i was able to twist the number so we didn't have 50,000 extra infants remaining, we'd also have to remember not everyone wants to adopt an infant, that not everyone on the list will end up adopting, the percentile decrease is quite large and idealistic and very out of proportion to realistic terms, and after everyone adopts, we don't know if next year we'll still have enough people to adopt, what did i have, 400,000 babies? I don't remember...

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 6:30 pm

Flo/Potatoe: You're right about the line-drawing, but I don't think my line is arbitrary at all. I draw it at conc.eption. Before con.ception, there is no reason to think that life will come about. Spe.rm on its own will not become a person, and neither will a solitary egg. After the egg and spe.rm meet, you are almost guarenteed to have a baby (barring something going terribly wrong). At that point life becomes nearly inevitable. Like I said earlier, what matters is that it will be a person- and while sp.erm on its own can't ever become a person, a zy.gote can.

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PotatoeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 7:29 pm

Alright, so is the line now between egg/sp.erm and zygote now?

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 9:02 pm

Actually about 50% of fertilized eggs fail to implant, so at conception you have less than a 50% chance of getting a baby.

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JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 11:32 pm

CollinF:
 
No worries. I'm being purposefully distant towards this discussion because I know it can get intense really fast.
 
I see a difference between a fetus that has undergone a small amount of development and a child. I've studied embryology and for a short while it made it more difficult to accept a.brtion past certain times, but then I started to understand what the development levels meant and how the fetus isn't sentient, and never has been up until that point.
 
I understand the potential for a living human being and that is the reason why I would find it personally difficult to do 
 
As for the coma patient/fetus comparisson, the coma patient is already fully developed. They have been sentient and would continue to be so if they woke up. The fetus is not. And the younger it is, the less developed it is, so the less like the coma patient it actually is. There's quite a difference between killing someone who has already had a life and ab.orting a fetus before it's got to that stage. I get that doesn't mean that it justifies it (and I can certainly understand why it wouldn't), but it does mean that they are quite different circumstances.

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Jul. 15, 2013 at 2:19 pm

Quantum: If you abort then it's a 100% chance of not getting a baby. And I agree with Collin- we cannot take the chance that we might be killing somebody. Maybe life begins at conc.eption. Maybe life begins when a heartbeat appears. Maybe the baby doesn't develop a soul (if you believe in souls) until it can feel pain. Maybe it doesn't count as a person until the instant it leaves the womb. Maybe this, maybe that, maybe maybe maybe... there are far too many maybes to declare, once and for all, that ab.ortion is not murder. We don't know, and until we know we can't risk it. Would you play Russian roulette with someone else's life?

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Jul. 15, 2013 at 2:29 pm

There's a 100% chance of not having a baby if you abo.rt. And like Collin said, it's not a chance we can take. Maybe life does begin at conc.eption. Maybe life beings when the fet.us has a heartbeat. Maybe the baby develops a soul (if you believe in souls) as soon as it gets a heartbeat. Maybe the baby isn't really a human until it leaves the womb. Maybe this, maybe that, maybe maybe maybe... there are far too many maybes for us to conclusively declare that abor.tion is not murder. And until we can do so, we can't risk it. Would you play Russian Roulette with somone else's life?

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 15, 2013 at 2:35 pm

Personally, no. I see the potential for life (although I seriously doubt fetuses are sentient until quite late in pregnancy) and thus in my personal life would not support abo.rtion.

However, when a child is unwanted or the mother is in danger I understand that abor.tion may be the best option. I don't think abo.rtions are always wrong or should be legally prohibited. I am, however, all for private efforts to convince people not to havr abo.rtions. I don't think the government should get involved, however.

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 15, 2013 at 2:36 pm

Personally, no. I see the potential for life (although I seriously doubt fe.tuses are sentient until quite late in preg.nancy) and thus in my personal life would not support abo.rtion.
 
However, when a child is unwanted or the mother is in danger I understand that abor.tion may be the best option. I don't think abo.rtions are always wrong or should be legally prohibited. I am, however, all for private efforts to convince people not to have abo.rtions. I don't think the government should get involved, however.

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PotatoeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 15, 2013 at 7:08 pm

i feel like i see guilty until innocent e.e; like quantum said, you can try to convince someone not to have an ab.ortion, but still, the government should stay outta it.

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