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What is the best form of government?

Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 1:27 pm

"For a capitalist, rich off the wealth he stole from the working class, capitalism is. For the workers libertarian communism is."
 
First capitalists do not "steal" money from anybody - they earn it through their own hard work. I admit pure capitalism can be unfair, but competion is not inherently bad. Nor is unevenness (this is different from unfairness). Saying that capitalists "steal" money from workers is just acting like a victim. Most wealthy people get where they are through hard work.
 
If you spent your whole life working really hard would it be fair for people who didn't work as hard have the same amount of money - of course not! I'm not saying the whole working class (or even most of it) doesn't work hard, but its also not fair to blame those who are successful. An economic system that derides success is definitely a bad one in my opinion - and communism does just that. 
 
Communism is great in theory - but it doesn't work because even is not the same thing as fair.

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human6 replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 1:45 pm

Here's how it works: I sell donuts then pay my boss most of the money I produced then he gives me back a little.
Communism existed for centuries in Middle Ages cities

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 2:01 pm

Because your boss set up the business which means he takes all the risk about starting a business. He also takes care of paying things like rent on the building, the ingredients to make donuts, the utility bills, and probably employee benefits. If you want to take all that on no one is stopping you in a capitalist society from starting your own business. Or you could take another job if you don't think you're being compensated enough - because in a capitalist society companies are competing for workers.
 
And in Middle Ages:
 
a) It was a feudal system where the king or baron took basically everything.
b) In cities, if you're refering to artisans, they had their own businesses and all the risks and costs associated with that just like the boss you're complaining about.

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stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 4:01 pm

half.note:
 
"tyranny of the majority is a myth, IMO, since the official opposition always serves as a balance"
 
I don't agree, but would you care to elaborate?
 
"We're not a republic, though."
 
Technically no, but as far as I know you mostly operate like one. Though I'm not sure.
 
 
 
As for my views, I am (as you probably already know) very liberal. I have a huge personal focus on social liberty, but not necessarily social justice.
 
Economically, I think the U.S. needs to cut the military budget largely, and increase funding of organizations like NASA, especially NASA in particular (for reasons upon which I might elaborate later). The education budget should also be much, much better handled, with far, far less spent on standardized testing and far, far more spent on teachers' salaries and education technology.
 
I hate pennies, and also nickels. Especially pennies. They cost more to make than to make than they're worth, and they have totally stopped being used for any meaningful economic exchange. Case in point, you just can't buy anything for a penny anymore. They have not only lost their value but their usefulness in the economy and there is no good reason to continue making them.
 
I strongly disagree that "capital gains" should be taxed far less than normal income. It should be taxed just as much -- it's totally absurd that the richest people in the country pay significantly less in taxes than those who are middle class or even poor.
 
Also, I'm just going to ignore the religious responses because... yeah. Not interested.

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 4:14 pm

" increase funding of organizations like NASA, especially NASA in particular (for reasons upon which I might elaborate later)."
 
Yes! I'll give you my reasons:
 
a) We need to start working on colonizing other planets in the long term because eventually something will happen to Earth.
b) Such a project is not only good for the future of the species - it will serve as a common goal and will bring all the parties involved together (think about the effect the moon landing and the work done to get there had on the national spirit)
 
c) In the process of trying to acheive this essential long term goal we'll undeniably greatly increase our scientific and engineering knowledge.

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stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 4:18 pm

Quantum:
 
"First capitalists do not "steal" money from anybody - they earn it through their own hard work."
 
Inheriting a fortune and then taking over your parents' business isn't exactly "hard work." It's very strange that people somehow think that running an already successful business is a more difficult job than working within that business. Chances are it's not.
 
Most wealthy people (heck, myself included here) don't get their wealth from hard work, they get it from being lucky enough to have been born into an already rich and secure position in society, which enables them to further succeed without the kind of effort it takes those less fortunate to even stay afloat.
 
"Or you could take another job if you don't think you're being compensated enough - because in a capitalist society companies are competing for workers."
 
No, in current capitalist U.S., workers are competing for jobs. The companies rarely have to do anything but run a cheap ad to let people know they're looking to hire, and any place with reasonable working conditions will be filled to the brim with applicants. The workers are the ones competing in this system, not the employers, and the terms of competition are often ridiculous. There are fields of work where to get employed you need experience, and to get experience you need to be employed.

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 4:25 pm

"any place with reasonable working conditions will be filled to the brim with applicants."
 
Not true. In NC there is unemployment - yet construction companies and farms can't find workers. I think that means welfare is too good.
 
And yes - I know some people inherit a fortune, but that isn't the majority of successful people. I've been lucky enough to be born into a pretty well-off family (through my parent's hard work I might add), and while that has obviously helped I've also worked really hard at school and have a good work ethic, so I (fingers crossed) should be ready to succeed - by hard work, not inheritance. 

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 4:26 pm

*parents'

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Jul. 9, 2013 at 4:33 pm

o^o I feel like im the most simplistically thinkinf of everyone here.
 
As for the pennies thing... it's soo weird XD I bought something for 3.98 once and i had to pay four bucks. It was easier, but im sitll not used to the idea lol.

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 6:36 pm

stunt:
I guess "myth" was the wrong word.
I just meant that a tyranny of the majority is unlikely to occur (in Canada, at least) because even though the party in power rules on behalf of the majority of the population, any legistlation being considered still has to be scrutinized by the oppositinal parties. Parlament will even go so far to hold hearings of everyone involved (both majority and minority groups) so everyone is able to express their concerns.
Anyways, I just mentioned this because people use it as an attack on democracy.
 
Flo:
I actually miss the penny. :(
I guess it made sense to get rid of it, though, since it is essentially worthless... Poor penny....

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 6:54 pm

stunt:
Oh, forgot to mention the republic thing:
Technically, since we have a monarch we are not considered a republic.
Hoever, they aren't really involved in our government, they instead choose a representative (the Governor General) who has the last say on whether or not a law gets passed. Of course, even though the Governor General could technically reject a law by refusing to give the "Royal Assent" it has only happened, like, once in the history of Canada (and he got tomatos thrown at him, I believe :P) so they have no real power.
So, in some ways, I guess you could say Canada is a "de facto republic," but not technically because we are not indepedent of Britain.

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Jul. 9, 2013 at 9:07 pm

Me too, it made sense but i liked our penny :( I still have some though lol.

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 9, 2013 at 9:17 pm

XD Well it will take a while before pennies are out of circulation (50 years, I think....).

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Jul. 10, 2013 at 12:41 am

lol dude im keeping my pennies, they're like souvineers, and hey, maybe after a while they'll be worth some money ^^

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stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 10, 2013 at 2:47 am

It's ironic that, long after pennies are stopped in circulation because they lost their value, they will become valuable again as souvenirs.
 
Also, another reason I forgot to mention: If pennies and nickels are kicked out of circulation and their smelting is decriminalized, it will give a considerable boost to the economy and industry. It would cause an economic boost larger than the current value of all pennies and nickels combined. Ironically, if this happens because they have lost their value, their value will instantly increase to nearly twice what it was.

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stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 10, 2013 at 3:00 am

I'll post here more later, because I love this topid, but for now I'll post this:
 
ht tp://youtu.be/CbIZU8cQWXc
 
I promise it's concise, only five minutes and explains the necessity of the space program nearly flawlessly. It's entirely worth your time -- something everyone should watch.

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 10, 2013 at 11:28 pm

Cool video, stunt.
 
Personally, I don't think exploration of the universe is very important, but I can appreciate the sentiment. :)
 
God bless. ♥

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stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 10, 2013 at 11:53 pm

Why not?

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 11, 2013 at 12:29 am

Well, partly just my personality and interests. I never wanted to be an astronaut like most kids, and while I love looking at the stars and being reminded of God and creation, I'm not necessarily curious to discover what's out there.
That's just me. *shrugs*
 
But mostly it's because I believe that Jesus is returning soon so we need to be preparing for that.
 
According to Ellen White, though, we will have the opportunity in heaven to travel the universe and visit life on other planets.
In a vision where she visited another world, the angel with her said, "and if you are faithful, you, with the 144,000, shall have the privilege of visiting all the worlds and viewing the handiwork of God."
[Note: the term “144,000” is used symbolically in the Bible to represent the saved (Revelation 14:1-3)]
 
I mean, what else are we going to do for eternity... sit on clouds playing harps? XD
 
Anyways, I'm excited to explore the universe after my life here on earth is over (if I make it to heaven,that is), but for now I think we have enough problems to work out. :P
 
I'm not against space exploration, but I'm just personally not very interested. I hope you can understand that. :)
 
God bless. ♥

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zander101 replied...
Jul. 11, 2013 at 2:13 pm

wow i missed a lot,
I have been leeding Vacation Bible School so ive been busy.
I think that the rich people dont alwase just take stuff away from the little guy.
I  think a lot of them get it by hard work, invention, or maybe some good o'l luck.
but i know many rich people who worked hard for what they have.
as far as the other.
doctor bug, you dont have to say anything about God when defining your beliefs.
you can, dont worry its not about that so much as i think Quantum wanted this to be more  of a secular thing.
just make sure that your not going off on that cause it may not go over well.
 
as for stuntdude.
isnt liberty made up of the justice of the majority?
out of many one?
that way the majority decides whats going to be legal or whats going to be exeptable?
so that we can have indevidual rights but one major law to govern with?
idk just a thought.
 
also Human:
heres whats wrong with that idea ( in my opinion )
people get lucky and work hard, or inherate things.
its theirs, not yours.
no matter how you slice the cake, you cant say you deserve anything you havent worked for.
even if its not " fair"
thats not biblical or american or anything els thats just comon sense.
if you work for the man who owns the pie you may get part but not an equal share.
thats because he is offering you a way to earn small portions of what he has.
this way he stayes rich and you can work hard to become so.
( please if thats not what you meant correct me )
ive been of my comp for five days sooooo yeah ive missed alot

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