Hmmmm, when I die, I will be placed in a metal container and placed six feet under. Don't know about the rest of you. My body will stay there. As for my Soul, hopefully I go to Heaven. Whatever that may be. I try not to speculate on Heaven. For it is perfect. It has Go.D's eternal presence. As for He.ll, don't believe in the fire and brimstone part. i do believe in the Eternal Seperation of God.
Grrrr... just lost my whole post. >:[
Instead of repeating what I said, I'll just link you to past discussions I've had on this (all too common) topic:
h ttp://w ww.teenink.c om/forums?act=post&topic_id=19&thread_id=73558&page=1
(There was just my one large post on here. Jade argued against me, but I never got around to answering her.)
h ttp://w ww.teenink.c om/forums?act=post&topic_id=19&thread_id=74412&page=1
(This is another argument I had with Jade. It's mostly contained on the first two pages. This one kind of died off too.)
Anyways, I believe in what is coined ANNIHILATIONISM (the most epic word ever, in my opinion).
Here's the link to the topic on wikipedia:
h ttp://en.wikipedia.o rg/wiki/Annihilationism
It even has specific sections on the "Millerite and Adventist movement" (which is what the Seventh-day Adventist church originated from), as well as the "Seventh-day Adventist Church."
Check it out if you're interested.
God bless. <3
^ I guess I should say that those past discussions and Annihilationism all deal with whether or not h-ll is eternal, and not really much else.
Read Revelation 3:12 and chapter 21 to learn more about the New Earth and New Jerusalem.
God bless. <3
ah ok. thanks for clarifying. had a feeling you werent mistaken.
Ugh more reading I don't wanna do -_-; Excuse me while I go bang my head on a wall.
So the main difference between your argument and Jade's is that Jade says you're conscious for the rest of eternity and experience pain and such as torture in he.ll, while you say the soul is completely destroyed, unconscious, and you basically go poof. That's what I got. Is that right?
That's correcto XD I'm sorry, I'm really confused on what you need elaboration on. Plus, I'm extremely exhausted, so just outline a few questions?
okais. And for your beliefs im just asking how can he.ll be 100% bad and heaven be 100% good if you're there for eternity with no opposite (good in he.ll, bad in heaven) to counteract that good and bad? 'cause if something's 100% good or bad then after a while, it's really not that good/bad.
as for half.note's beliefs, if you get destroyed after death, then does that mean there's no actual he.ll? Cuz like, if you're good, you go to heaven. But if you're bad, you go poof. There's no reason why you need he.ll there at all.
New International Version (NIV)
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them,so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
The point of this passage is that there still WILL be a comparison between Good and Evil. It's not like our memories of Earth-days are lost when we're in heaven, that I understand. That would just be weird. Joy comes from finally being in the presence of the Lord and the allieviation of suffering. We can FEEL that because of the sudden shift of conditions--once we were burdened, now we are pain-free. Same with He.ll. Just because you experience complete joy doesn't mean you aren't aware of what the alternative could be.
BTW, that's a parable. It's not meant to be taken literally AT ALL. :D
i found verse 29 and 31 quite interesting...the law of the prophets, and just what could that be? different topic for a different time;)
SuperFloree: G-d is good and without Him there is no good, only evil.
Shalom Alechiem and Barucha!-PB
Jade: Well of course you'd remember, but after a long time things wan in strength, so after a while it'd still grow more mediocre.
PB: Still doesn't answer the 'how can bad be bad without good' question.
In short, death is exactly what it was like before you were conceived. I have looked for an argument to the contrary -- after all, death is a scary subject and it's easy to want to believe in a heaven. I never found any convincing arguments, however, and eventually was forced to face the truth. So now, I try not to think about it normally in my life unless someone else brings it up in discussion.
The afterlife is perhaps the hardest religious claim to support logically. We really know pretty much nothing for sure about what faces us beyond the grave. It's existence is something which the religious can catch a glimpse of at times when confronted with something particularly beautiful. True beauty produces in people not merely appreciation, but a longing for more that hurts as much as it pleases. To those who have a relationship with God, it appears obvious that this is an instinct like hunger or thirst which will, only logically, be fulfilled on day.
I view it as an act of God's wisdom that the afterlife seems like foolishness to non-believers, else they might turn to religion solely for the wrong reasons.
Hey, who's the new dude? And your name actually contains dude! AWESOME.
SDude: Haha, well the point of this forum is to think about these things ;)
Now I can imagine that, and it does make sense that way. Death is also called an eternal slumber by many people. Maybe when you sleep your soul is unconscious and 'dead'. Only difference here is, you can wake up.
Hm... maybe it's like, our souls cannot exist without a body. We can sleep and rest, and as long as our body will function we can wake up and continue in the physical world. However, when we die, our bodies no longer funtion, and we go on in an eternity of unconcsiousness. This also explains how we can't remember what happened to us before birth. We had no body, and therefore could not be conscious.
Of course, that would mean that our self awareness, conscoiusness and stuff are all totally just imaginary :P
I hate to be that one guy, but I can essentially sum up my view on this topic by saying that I play the cold-hearted and cynical psychologist when the subject of supernatural experiences comes up.
The thing about the hunger for more, when confronted with things we deem beautiful, is that to me it seems to make just as much sense for it be simply a facet of human greed, and like literal hunger, it isn't always fulfilled.
The new dude? I'm just a guy who makes music and butts his head in places without properly introducing himself. I like cats and astrophysics.
As for souls not existing without bodies, I think that once you get that far, the concept of a sould becomes irrelevant anyways. If it only exists when the brain is functioning, isn't it the same as a consciousness that exists because of brain activity? ...I really don't know if I think there's a difference. Huh :/
Stunt: lol hey, nothin' wrong with being that one guy :P
But even if it isnt fulfilled, that doesnt mean we cant try right? It's fun to think of these things ^^ Right now im just spectulating things randomly.
I mean, for all we know after you die, your soul could turn into a ham sandwich and then a fat guy in America eats you and then you come out as waste. And then you go and circulate the world like that.
Or maybe when you die, your soul gets magically transported to mars, where you live the secret life if an invisible immortal martian.
Or maybe when you die, your consciousness wakes you up in an alternate dimension, and it turns out that dying isnt really dying and instead is just a teleportation of you to a parallel universe.
Cuz hey, for all we know that might be what happens.
Stunt: OH MY DAD ATE A CAT ONCE! :D
And duh, but soul is waaay easier to type XD
Basically, that theory is that what we experience is just our consciousness doing whatever the hay it's doing. It's generated by the brain, so when the body dies, we die.