Bring up stuff here. I'll bump it regularly.
Question: could there ever be a balance between capatalism and anarchism?
just cuz i wanted to answer as Pimp Queen....it's not that deep :P
Nope: Capitalism is hierarchy domination and exploitation.
Anarchism is horizonatism, freedom, and justice.
You can always complain about the fundamentals of capitalism, but if you look purely at results captilist societies are the most effective and wealthy in the world - as a whole and for the majority of people. What's an example of anarchy actually working?
Not really. Capitalism is highly productive, but the wealth we see around us wouldn't be ours unless our ancestors hand't fought for it. Unions (run by anti capitalists) are the reason that you are able to afford a computer and to defend capitalism.
Is capitalism working for the homeless people in every city? Or for millions of Americans who live on soup kitchens allone? What about the child in the sweatshop the made your shoes?
Yes - capitalism isn't perfect for everyone and yes, it needs to be balanced by unions, etc. But capitalism is still the best system we've come up with. America and other capitalist societies have their poor and their problems that need to be solved, but in the scheme of things our poor are doing a whole lot better than any other society or economic system ever.
Its impossible for everyone to have everything they need and want (it sucks, but its true). At least capitalism, combined with democracy, gives everybody a shot. Maybe not an even shot - but a shot nontheless.
Besides, without discrepancy in wealth there is no incentive to be productive. Anybody who is poor today who gets wealthy through the system won't complain about it when they're the ones on top. Yes, its not completely fair, but its better than everybody being even and starving (think USSR).
I agree that some programs and regulation is necessary to help those who don't succeed, but you can't argue with the results of capitalism.
Quantum: We've only had what people think of as the capitalist life for 60 years, before that everybody was horribly off. In the third world people live under horrible conditions. That is natural capitalism, until the people threaten the system then they are bought off with small reforms and demobalized. As soon as revolution is nolonger a threat, the capitalists come back and steal the gains that were made. (this is why the US is seeing a back slide in conditions).
We live under conditions where it is realistically possible to create super abundance. This means that everyone can get everything that we want. All we need to do is put it under the control of the productive classes (workers, peasents, and petite bourgouise).
Capitalism is incompatable with democracy. We spend 8 hours under the dictatorship of the boss, this is not democracy.
If Einstein wanted to be rich he'd have been a banker. Instead he wanted to be creative so he was very poor scientist. Most inventors die poor, while buiseness men take there spoils. You think JK Rowling expected to be rich off Harry Potter, nope, she wrote it because she enjoyed writing.
The USSR was a capitalist society.
Communism/anarchy, etc. would be great if they worked - but they don't - they're counter to human nature.
Also, it is impossible for everyone to get everything the want. Once again, by human nature, we have unlimited once. People will always want more. No system will solve that.
Capitilism (with some reforms) plays on our human nature to create wildly successful economy.
Once again, give me an example of a communist or anarchist system that has been anywhere close to as effective in real life as capitalism has been in the United States and many other countries.
And, as someone who wants to be a physicist, it makes perfect sense to me that Einstein isn't fabulously wealthy. After all he didn't provide a product to anybody. I support some government funding for research, but I think its reasonable that engineers make more than physicists (as much as it would be awesome if it were different).
Hey human, would you be interested in doing a Google HOA sometime to discuss different kinds of anarchist philosophy? (I know, I know, you think I'm a dirty fascist pig.) But it still might be cool to talk some of this stuff out rather than writing novelesque threads that get buried and forgotten.
whats an HOA?
I don't consider you a fascist. I do see a worrying bleed over between libertarians and fascist movements however. I see libertarians more as "useful idiots" for fascists.
Ian, you've become so much more intelligible over the years. :') I'm actually quite fond of you now, buddy.
:) thanks Destinee. If I could go back in time and meet my 13 yrl self, I'd punch him in his smug, know it, all whiny mouth.
LOL me too. (Not you, me 5 yrs ago :P)
I'd punch you too, human.
A HangoutOnAir. Basically it's a video room with up to 10 people that 1) live-feeds to youtube and 2) stays up. So it would be like a skype debate between us that gets put up on youtube. (Or we could just do it privately if you would prefer that.)
Sure I'd be interested. Just need a time/place
human6: Are you going to reply to my post? I'm eager to continue this discussion. :)
1. Actually it isn't human nature is to cooperate, not compete.
2. seee above
3. Capitalism can't handle being good for the majority of the population for long. The economy can't handle new deal reforms anymore. This is a reason to end capitalism, not try to save it. Reforming capitalism is like trying to teach piranahs to be vegan. (litterally the need to consume and expand will make them starve if they don't eat meat/ reduce the majority to absolute poverty.)
4. The Iraquois confederacy. Zappatista Autonomous Muncipalities. Anarchist Catalonia.
Probably it'll have to be after next Wednesday. Testing :p