Ah I see. Well, now would be a good time to quit XD
maybe, but nah
Hmm....so yeah anywayz :P.
half note, I don't think the topic of the eternal nature of he.ll is irrelevant in general, but as it pertains to this topic.....does the duration of suffering matter when u know a loved one is suffering? If u saw a person being tortured would it matter if they were tortured for a week instead of a year? Not if they were family, at least.
Human, did u read what I wrote at all?
jade: I will later
Is this a philosophical farce?
The duration isn't really the issue if you're thinking finite amounts of time, but we're not talking about just a week or a year, we're talking about eternity.
The Bible always describes the wicked being destroyed, not being tortured forever.
"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts."
"But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off."
As well, if the wicked were to burn forever than they would have eternal life, which God promised only to the righteous.
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
And just think of the image this view on h-ll gives God.
I think it was Quantum who said that they would never worship a God who tortured people forever.
We know that God is loving and just, so why would he do such a heinous act?
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
(2 Peter 3:9)
"Not willing that any should perish..." He doesn't want his creations to die, so why would he want them to suffer for eternity? Dying is ultimately more merciful.
Anyways, I like to think of it more this way:
God is not destroying sinners, he is destroying sin. It was the sinner's own choice to not let go of their sin, so they perish with it.
God bless. ♥
the week and year thing was just a metaphor. i was comparing a finite amount of time to infinite by using an example. agree to disagree.
jade: you're giving up, she just done proved you wrong, you gotta at least refute:)
something that occured to me and my youth pastor during our bible reading is similar to your predicament.
alot of the bible verses that pertain to H.ell and whatnot, and what happens to us after we die, speak of "eternal destruction" or "the second death".
the issue here is how can something final, or ending, such as death, be eternal? how can destruction be eternal? its a final act.
so our theory is maybe it is final. perhaps the soul (because at this point the body ceases to exist) is destroyed. in one final motion, God may just snuff out the soul of those who rejected him. maybe they would literally cease to exist.
now granted, i am not entirly sure of this. i have run into verses that say otherwise, but its just a peice of the puzzle.
again, just my two cents.
I think Christians & Muslims who try to rationalize away H.ell just need to suck up the fact that eternal punishment exists, and it's the opposite end of the spectrum of eternal reward.
That, or you can do what I did and stop believing in it. But, you know, bad idea...
Well as far as what everyone else has been saying all I know is this God is a god of mysterys, he made things that we don't completely understand, so that we may have faith in him. No matter how you interprete the bible one thing is clear, God is a good god full of compassion and mercy but he is just in everything he does. And yes it may seem hard to be happy when half the people you know are in h.ell but when God is your COMPLETE joy, nothing else matters. When your in heaven the only thing you do is rejoice in God for all he has done. I know others might have something to refute this, but this is not my arguement- this is my heart, what I believe in and will always know to be true.
No matter what God loves you, please i beg of you human6 understand the love of God and try to pray or read the bible.I have so much more to say, but just know this in your hour of need God is always - and he loves you so much more then you and I will ever know .
And all of you Christians out there!!! Show all the earth the love of God , that is what will save them more then any words we write, or any arguement we present.
So yes while i am in heaven i will rejoice and be happy in the abundance of Gods love, and while I am on earth I will share with others God's love so that they to can rejoice with me in heaven :)
TargontheDragon- Have you met half.note yet? She's an outspoken Seventh-Day Adventist and believes exactly that.
Personally, I believe those verses refer to a metaphorical 'spiritual death'- a terrible rift of the soul, (ie. separation from God) instead of a literal end to existence. (The Savior spoke of birth metaphorically, so I don't see why death is different.)
Yeah, I realize you were just giving an example, but my point remains:
If h-ll lasts for eternity than the wicked will be tortured forever.
That's infinitely more time than any finite length.
The question remains: is this a loving thing for God to do?
Anyways, I realize we'll probably never agree so I won't blame you if you don't reply.
God bless. ♥
I don't know if you'll ever see this post, but I thought I should reply anyways.
Imagine is right--I believe exactly what you described.
May I ask what verses you've seen that contradict this? I'd like to be able to help reconcile them, if I can.
God bless. ♥
NaNoMoJo: This is sort of repeating myself, but if you love a God so much that you can forget about have the world suffering for eternity (Including those like me who haven't done anything wrong other than not believe in God) then are you really being a good person? Is that really a good God?
Did you read my post near the top of the page?
Not all Christians believe that h-ll is eternal (I don't).
I know you don't believe in the Bible, so I'm sorry to quote scripture at you, but I just want to show you the Christian perspective on salvation:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
Every single person on this planet (Christian or non-Christian) has sinned.
Just because someone becomes Christian doesn't mean they will never sin or automatically be granted a place in heaven.
However, choices will have to made about whether or not you will follow God.
And if anyone would rather cling to their sin instead of Jesus (which could happen to Christians, too), then they wouldn't really be happy in heaven anyway.
Sorry if I got preachy. I don't mean to judge or condemn you, I'm just sharing my perspective.
God bless. ♥
Half.note: No problem. I read your post, but not right before I wrote that post, so I must have forgotten. Although that post was specifically directed toward NaNoMoJo's comment.
Also, even if I'm not a 100% believer in Jesus as the son of God, I'm pretty sure I'd be more happy in Heaven than Hell.
Aagh...I forgot to put a "." in H.ell. Anyway: I read your post. I just forgot about it before writing the one above, although it was directed at NaNoMoJo's commeny.
Anyway, even if I don't firmly believe in Jesus as the son of God, I'm pretty sure I'd still be happier in Heaven than H.ell
Yeah, the filters are killer. :P
Always copy all your writing before you post, that way if it doesn't post you can just open a new reply and paste it in.
And if it's a really long post that you spent a week on (or what feels like a week) sometimes it's best to copy it into a word document just in case it won't paste again (I've had that happen before).
Anyways, on topic:
I don't think you would be happy.
Heaven isn't a place where you're just allowed to do whatever you want.
Instead, everyone will be worshipping and obeying God, which if someone never did this on Earth, they won't enjoy in heaven.
Ellen G. White says in Steps to Christ, pg. 17-18:
"In his sinless state, man held joyful communion with Him "in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." Colossians 2:3. But after his sin, he could no longer find joy in holiness, and he sought to hide from the presence of God. Such is still the condition of the unrenewed heart. It is not in harmony with God, and finds no joy in communion with Him. The sinner could not be happy in God's presence; he would shrink from the companionship of holy beings. Could he be permitted to enter heaven, it would have no joy for him. The spirit of unselfish love that reigns there —every heart responding to the heart of Infinite Love —would touch no answering chord in his soul. His thoughts, his interests, his motives, would be alien to those that actuate the sinless dwellers there. He would be a discordant note in the melody of heaven. Heaven would be to him a place of torture; he would long to be hidden from Him who is its light, and the center of its joy. It is no arbitrary decree on the part of God that excludes the wicked from heaven; they are shut out by their own unfitness for its companionship. The glory of God would be to them a consuming fire. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them."
I guess it all depends on what you think heaven is like, but this is what I think.
God bless. ♥
Well. You may be right. Is not believing in God a sin? Say I have sinned in some other way, as all of us had? Since I don't believe in God and thus don't ask for forgiveness would I still not enjoy God's company? As a moral person I feel guilt when I sin. I'm sure there's probably some sort of problem associated with this, but say I die and find out that God is real. Then I'd be glad to ask for forgiveness and all that. If I knew God existed in this world I'd enjoy worshiping him now, as well.