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Destinee or Dynamo (Koran Question)

JunieSparrow posted this thread...
Mar. 21, 2013 at 6:54 pm

Someone told me the Koran says J.ews should be exterminated. 
True or False?  I asked for a reference and he couldn't give one, but said a Muslim had told him this.  If there's nowhere it specifically says this, is there anywhere that could be misconstrued to say this?  Thanks. 

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Destinee replied...
Mar. 22, 2013 at 2:32 am

It definitely doesn't. A Muslim telling someone something is never a reference, be it something positive (like alms-giving) or negative (like exterminating a race of people). Gently tell your acquaintance that hearsay is not an adequate replacement for knowledge.
As for anything that could be misconstrued as this...hmmm...not as far as I remember. I mean, there are the infamous Sword Verses et al, but they don't refer to J.ews (ironically, to p.agans who were at war with Muslims). So I don't know how anyone could read "J.ewish genocide" into that.
There is also the historical incident of Banu Nadir, which I don't think is referenced in the Qur'an (I could be wrong but I don't think it is). Banu Nadir was a J.ewish tribe in Madinah who signed a treaty with the ruling Muslims, and whom broke it. They were punished as traitors, ironically given their own punishment (from the Torah).
That's all I can think of :S 

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Mar. 22, 2013 at 8:38 am

alright there's a lot of people that say that al-ah turned the J.ews into apes and pigs, is this true?

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Dynamo replied...
Mar. 22, 2013 at 10:44 am

Dess: The historical incident of Banu Nadir is outlined in Sura Hashar. Ibn e Abbas used to call it Sura An Nadeer. (C.f. Ar Raheeq Ul Mukhtum)
Junie: There is no reference to extermiate them, although the ruling is, "Fight them on unless unless there is no more tumult and oppression...... but be not transgressors" and "Fight those who fight you but transgress not the prescribed limits".
In fact, the concept is to fight only if a subtle cause is there, like Banu Nadir planned on killing the Prophet of Islam, so the ruling was to turn them out.

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Mar. 22, 2013 at 7:00 pm

I have a question. Where does Muslim-Jewish tension originate from? I mean, all the major Abrahamic religions sometimes hate each other. With Muslims and Christians it's because of the Crusades, with Je.ws and Christians it's becuase the Je.ws killed Christ. I'm just wondering why J.ews and Muslims don't get along.

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JunieSparrow replied...
Mar. 23, 2013 at 2:05 pm

That's more or less what Google told me.  I mean, really, if the Koran actually said, "Kill J.ews," I would have thought the Pro-war, "kill all muslims" Christian right would have that up on bill-boards everywhere.  lol 
*shakes head*  Thanks guys. 
Imagine  Maybe with Isaac and Ishmael? 

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Mar. 24, 2013 at 10:23 am

Imagine: esau is still trying to kill Jacob.
Junie: I'm not so sure about that, because Isaac loved Ishamel as a brother, but esau has been still trying to kill Jacob ever since Jacob got his father's blessing.
Shalom Alechiem and Barucha!

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ContemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Mar. 24, 2013 at 7:10 pm

PB: I don't think the tension between Esau and Jacob is the reason for the tension between J.ews and Mu.slims. According to the bible, Jacob met up with his brother since the deception made on Isaac. Jacob thought Esau would want to kill him. Instead, Esau embraced his brother and they departed with no fued or hard bearing. Atleast, I didn't see any hard feelings between the two. 
I don't know why there would be any special tension between Islam and Judaism. There is always the obvious tension that one group thinks the other group is wrong about God. Honestly, thats the only tension I see. 

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Mar. 28, 2013 at 10:09 am

contemplator: ???? how long has it been since you read about Jacob and esau???
Gen 25:21
And Yitsḥaq prayed to יהוה for his wife, because she was barren. And יהוה answered his prayer, and Riḇqah his wife conceived.
Gen 25:22
And within her the children struggled together, and she said, "If all is right, why am I this way?" So she went to ask יהוה.
Gen 25:23
And יהוה said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples shall be separated from your body. And one people shall be stronger than the other, and the older serve the younger."
Gen 25:24
And when the days were filled for her to give birth, and see, twins were in her womb!
Gen 25:25
And the first came out red all over, like a hairy garment, so they called his name Ěsaw.
Gen 25:26
And afterward his brother came out, with his hand holding on to Ěsaw’s heel, so his name was called Yaʽaqoḇ. And Yitsḥaq was sixty years old when she bore them.
Gen 25:27
And the boys grew up. And Ěsaw became a man knowing how to hunt, a man of the field, while Yaʽaqoḇ was a complete man, dwelling in tents.
Gen 25:28
And Yitsḥaq loved Ěsaw because he ate of his wild game, but Riḇqah loved Yaʽaqoḇ.
Gen 25:29
And Yaʽaqoḇ cooked a stew, and Ěsaw came in from the field, and he was weary.
Gen 25:30
And Ěsaw said to Yaʽaqoḇ, "Please feed me with that same red stew, for I am weary." That is why his name was called Eḏom.
Gen 25:31
But Yaʽaqoḇ said, "Sell me your birthright today."
Gen 25:32
And Ěsaw said, "Look, I am going to die, so why should I have birthright?"
Gen 25:33
Then Yaʽaqoḇ said, "Swear to me today." And he swore to him, and sold his birthright to Yaʽaqoḇ.
Gen 25:34
Yaʽaqoḇ then gave Ěsaw bread and stew of lentils. And he ate and drank, and rose up and left. Thus Ěsaw despised his birthright.
Gen 26:1
And there was a scarcity of food in the land, besides the first scarcity of food which was in the days of Aḇraham. And Yitsḥaq went to Aḇimeleḵ, sovereign of the Philistines, in Gerar.
Gen 26:2
And יהוה appeared to him and said, "Do not go down to Mitsrayim, live in the land which I command you.
Gen 26:3
"Sojourn in this land. And I shall be with you and bless you, for I give all these lands to you and your seed. And I shall establish the oath which I swore to Aḇraham your father.
Gen 26:4
"And I shall increase your seed like the stars of the heavens, and I shall give all these lands to your seed. And in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed,
Gen 26:5
because Aḇraham obeyed My voice and guarded My Charge: My commands, My laws, and My Torot1." Footnote: 1Torot - plural of Torah, teaching
Gen 26:6
And Yitsḥaq dwelt in Gerar.
Gen 26:7
And when the men of the place asked about his wife, he said, "She is my sister." For he was afraid to say, "She is my wife," thinking, "lest the men of the place should kill me for Riḇqah, because she is good-looking."
Gen 26:8
And it came to be, when he had been there a long time, that Aḇimeleḵ sovereign of the Philistines looked through a window, and he watched and saw Yitsḥaq playing with Riḇqah his wife.
Gen 26:9
So Aḇimeleḵ called Yitsḥaq and said, "See, truly she is your wife! So how could you say, ‘She is my sister’?" And Yitsḥaq said to him, "Because I said, ‘Lest I die on account of her.’ "
Gen 26:10
And Aḇimeleḵ said, "What is this you have done to us? One of the people had almost lain with your wife, and you would have brought guilt on us."
Gen 26:11
And Aḇimeleḵ commanded all his people, saying, "He who touches this man or his wife shall certainly be put to death."
Gen 26:12
And Yitsḥaq sowed in that land, and reaped in the same year a hundredfold, and יהוה blessed him.
Gen 26:13
And the man grew great and went forward until he became very great.
Gen 26:14
And he came to have possessions of flocks and possessions of herds and a great body of servants, and the Philistines envied him.
Gen 26:15
And the Philistines had stopped up all the wells which his father’s servants had dug in the days of Aḇraham his father, and filled them with dirt.
Gen 26:16
And Aḇimeleḵ said to Yitsḥaq, "Go away from us, for you are much mightier than we."
Gen 26:17
So Yitsḥaq went from there and pitched his tent in the wadi Gerar, and dwelt there.
Gen 26:18
And Yitsḥaq dug again the wells of water which they had dug in the days of Aḇraham his father, for the Philistines had stopped them up after the death of Aḇraham. And he called them by the names which his father had called them.
Gen 26:19
But when Yitsḥaq’s servants dug in the wadi and found a well of running water there,
Gen 26:20
the herdsmen of Gerar strove with Yitsḥaq’s herdsmen, saying, "The water is ours." And he called the name of the well Ěseq, because they strove with him.
Gen 26:21
And they dug another well, and they strove over that one too, and he called its name Sitnah.
Gen 26:22
And he moved from there and dug another well, and they did not strive over it. And he called its name Reḥoḇoth, and said, "For now יהוה has made room for us, and we shall bear fruit in the land."
Gen 26:23
And from there he went up to Be’ĕrsheḇa.

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Mar. 28, 2013 at 10:11 am

Gen 26:24
And יהוה appeared to him the same night and said, "I am the Elohim of your father Aḇraham. Do not fear, for I am with you, and shall bless you and increase your seed for My servant Aḇraham’s sake."
Gen 26:25
And he built an altar there, and called on the Name of יהוה, and he pitched his tent there, and the servants of Yitsḥaq dug a well there.
Gen 26:26
And Aḇimeleḵ came to him from Gerar, with Aḥuzzath, one of his friends, and Piḵol the commander of his army.
Gen 26:27
And Yitsḥaq said to them, "Why have you come to me, seeing you have hated me and have sent me away from you?"
Gen 26:28
But they said, "We have clearly seen that יהוה is with you. And we said, ‘Please, let there be an oath between us, between you and us. And let us make a covenant with you,
Gen 26:29
that you do no evil to us, as we have not touched you, and as we have done only good toward you, and have sent you away in peace. You are now blessed by יהוה.’ "
Gen 26:30
And he made them a feast, and they ate and drank.
Gen 26:31
And they rose early in the morning and swore an oath with one another. And Yitsḥaq let them go, and they departed from him in peace.
Gen 26:32
And on the same day it came to be that the servants of Yitsḥaq came and informed him about the well which they had dug, and said to him, "We have found water."
Gen 26:33
So he called it Shiḇah. Therefore the name of the city is Be’ĕrsheḇa to this day.
Gen 26:34
And when Ěsaw was forty years old, he took as wives Yehuḏith the daughter of Be’ĕri the Ḥittite, and Basemath the daughter of Ělon the Ḥittite.
Gen 26:35
And they were a bitterness of spirit to Yitsḥaq and Riḇqah.
Gen 27:1
And it came to be, when Yitsḥaq was old and his eyes were too dim to see, that he called Ěsaw his elder son and said to him, "My son." And he answered him, "Here I am."
Gen 27:2
And he said, "See now, I am old, I do not know the day of my death.
Gen 27:3
"Now then, please take your weapons, your quiver and your bow, and go out to the field and hunt wild game for me.
Gen 27:4
"And make me a tasty dish, such as I love, and bring it to me to eat, in order that my being does bless you before I die."
Gen 27:5
And Riḇqah heard when Yitsḥaq spoke to Ěsaw his son. And Ěsaw went to the field to hunt wild game and to bring it.
Gen 27:6
And Riḇqah spoke to Yaʽaqoḇ her son, saying, "See, I heard your father speak to Ěsaw your brother, saying,
Gen 27:7
‘Bring me wild game and make me a tasty dish to eat, and bless you in the presence of יהוה before my death.’
Gen 27:8
"And now my son, listen to my voice according to what I command you.
Gen 27:9
"Please go to the flock and bring me two choice young goats, and I make a tasty dish from them for your father, such as he loves.
Gen 27:10
"And you shall take it to your father, and he shall eat it, so that he might bless you before his death."
Gen 27:11
And Yaʽaqoḇ said to Riḇqah his mother, "See, Ěsaw my brother is a hairy man, and I am a smooth-skinned man.
Gen 27:12
"What if my father touches me? Then I shall be like a deceiver in his eyes, and shall bring a curse on myself and not a blessing."
Gen 27:13
But his mother said to him, "Let your curse be on me, my son. Only obey my voice, and go, get them for me."
Gen 27:14
And he went and fetched them and brought them to his mother, and his mother made a tasty dish, such as his father loved.
Gen 27:15
And Riḇqah took the best garments of her elder son Ěsaw, which were with her in the house, and put them on Yaʽaqoḇ her younger son.
Gen 27:16
And she put the skins of the young goats on his hands and on the smooth part of his neck.
Gen 27:17
Then she gave the tasty dish and the bread, which she had prepared, into the hand of her son Yaʽaqoḇ.
Gen 27:18
And he went to his father and said, "My father." And he said, "Here I am. Who are you, my son?"
Gen 27:19
And Yaʽaqoḇ said to his father, "I am Ěsaw your first-born, I have done as you said to me. Please rise, sit and eat of my wild game, so that your being might bless me."
Gen 27:20
But Yitsḥaq said to his son, "How is it that you have found it so quickly, my son?" And he said, "Because יהוה your Elohim brought it to me."

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Mar. 28, 2013 at 10:12 am

Gen 27:21
Then Yitsḥaq said to Yaʽaqoḇ, "Please come near, so that I feel you, my son, whether you truly are my son Ěsaw or not."
Gen 27:22
And Yaʽaqoḇ went near to Yitsḥaq his father, and he felt him and said, "The voice is the voice of Yaʽaqoḇ, but the hands are the hands of Ěsaw."
Gen 27:23
And he did not recognise him, for his hands were hairy like his brother Ěsaw’s hands, and he blessed him.
Gen 27:24
And he said, "Are you truly my son Ěsaw?" And he said, "I am."
Gen 27:25
And he said, "Bring it near to me, and let me eat of my son’s wild game, so that my being might bless you." So he brought it near to him, and he ate. And he brought him wine, and he drank.
Gen 27:26
And his father Yitsḥaq said to him, "Please come near and kiss me, my son."
Gen 27:27
And he came near and kissed him. And he smelled the smell of his garments, and blessed him and said, "See, the smell of my son is like the smell of a field which יהוה has blessed.
Gen 27:28
And Elohim give you of the dew of the heavens, of the fatness of the earth, and plenty of grain and wine.
Gen 27:29
Let peoples serve you, and nations bow down to you. Be master over your brothers, and let your mother’s sons bow down to you. Cursed be those cursing you, and blessed be those blessing you!"
Gen 27:30
And it came to be, as soon as Yitsḥaq had finished blessing Yaʽaqoḇ, and Yaʽaqoḇ had hardly left the presence of Yitsḥaq his father, that Ěsaw his brother came in from his hunting.
Gen 27:31
And he too had made a tasty dish and brought it to his father, and said to his father, "Let my father rise and eat of his son’s wild game, so that your being might bless me."
Gen 27:32
And his father Yitsḥaq said to him, "Who are you?" And he said, "I am your son, your first-born, Ěsaw."
Gen 27:33
Then Yitsḥaq trembled exceedingly, and said, "Who was it then who hunted wild game and brought it to me? And I ate all of it before you came, and I have blessed him. Yea, he is blessed."
Gen 27:34
When Ěsaw heard the words of his father, he cried with an exceedingly great and bitter cry, and said to his father, "Bless me, me too, O my father!"
Gen 27:35
And he said, "Your brother came with deceit and took your blessing."
Gen 27:36
And Ěsaw said, "Was his name, then, called Yaʽaqoḇ? For he has caught me by the heel these two times. He took my birthright, and see, now he has taken my blessing!" And he said, "Have you not reserved a blessing for me?"
Gen 27:37
Then Yitsḥaq answered and said to Ěsaw, "See, I have made him your master, and all his brothers I have given to him as servants. And I have sustained him with grain and wine. And what, then, shall I do for you, my son?"
Gen 27:38
And Ěsaw said to his father, "Have you only one blessing, my father? Bless me, me too, O my father!" And Ěsaw lifted up his voice and wept.
Gen 27:39
And Yitsḥaq his father answered and said to him, "See, your dwelling is of the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of the heavens from above.
Gen 27:40
And by your sword you are to live, and serve your brother. And it shall be, when you grow restless, that you shall break his yoke from your neck."
Gen 27:41
And Ěsaw hated Yaʽaqoḇ because of the blessing with which his father blessed him, and Ěsaw said in his heart, "The days of mourning for my father draw near, then I am going to kill my brother Yaʽaqoḇ."
Gen 27:42
And the words of Ěsaw her older son were reported to Riḇqah, and she sent and called Yaʽaqoḇ her younger son, and said to him, "See, your brother Ěsaw comforts himself concerning you, to kill you.
Gen 27:43
"And now, my son, listen to my voice, and rise, flee to my brother Laḇan in Ḥaran.
Gen 27:44
"And stay with him a few days, until your brother’s wrath turns away,
Gen 27:45
until your brother’s displeasure turns away from you, and he forgets what you have done to him. And I shall send and bring you from there. Why should I be bereaved of you both in one day?"
Gen 27:46
And Riḇqah said to Yitsḥaq, "I am disgusted with my life because of the daughters of Ḥĕth. If Yaʽaqoḇ takes a wife from the daughters of Ḥĕth, like these who are the daughters of the land, what is my life to me?"
Gen 28:1
And Yitsḥaq called Yaʽaqoḇ and blessed him, and commanded him, and said to him, "Do not take a wife from the daughters of Kenaʽan.
Gen 28:2
"Arise, go to Paddan Aram, to the house of Bethu’ĕl your mother’s father. And take a wife for yourself from there, from the daughters of Laḇan your mother’s brother.
Gen 28:3
"And Ěl Shaddai bless you, and make you bear fruit and increase you, and you shall become an assembly of peoples,
Gen 28:4
and give you the blessing of Aḇraham, to you and your seed with you, so that you inherit the land of your sojournings, which Elohim gave to Aḇraham."
Gen 28:5
So Yitsḥaq sent Yaʽaqoḇ away, and he went to Paddan Aram, to Laḇan son of Bethu’ĕl the Aramean, the brother of Riḇqah, the mother of Yaʽaqoḇ and Ěsaw.
Gen 28:6
And Ěsaw saw that Yitsḥaq had blessed Yaʽaqoḇ and sent him away to Paddan Aram to take himself a wife from there, and that as he blessed him he gave him a command, saying, "Do not take a wife from the daughters of Kenaʽan,"
Gen 28:7
and that Yaʽaqoḇ had obeyed his father and his mother and had gone to Paddan Aram.
Gen 28:8
So Ěsaw saw that the daughters of Kenaʽan did not please his father Yitsḥaq,
Gen 28:9
and Ěsaw went to Yishmaʽĕl and took Maḥalath the daughter of Yishmaʽĕl, Aḇraham’s son, the sister of Neḇayoth, to be his wife, besides the wives he had.
Gen 28:10
And Yaʽaqoḇ went out from Be’ĕrsheḇa and went toward Ḥaran.
Gen 28:11
And he came upon a place and stopped over for the night, for the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep.
Gen 28:12
And he dreamed and saw a ladder set up on the earth, and its top reached to the heavens, and saw messengers of Elohim going up and coming down on it.
Gen 28:13
And see, יהוה stood above it and said, "I am יהוה Elohim of Aḇraham your father and the Elohim of Yitsḥaq. The land on which you are lying, I give it to you and your seed.
Gen 28:14
"And your seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and you shall break forth to the west and to the east, to the north and the south. And all the clans of the earth shall be blessed in you and in your seed.
Gen 28:15
"And see, I am with you and shall guard you wherever you go, and shall bring you back to this land. For I am not going to leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you."


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RarelyJaded replied...
Mar. 28, 2013 at 10:12 am

Yikes I ain't readin that.

*runs back to random forum*

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Mar. 28, 2013 at 10:14 am

Gen 28:16
And Yaʽaqoḇ awoke from his sleep and said, "Truly, יהוה is in this place, and I did not know it."
Gen 28:17
And he was afraid and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of Elohim, and this is the gate of the heavens!"
Gen 28:18
And Yaʽaqoḇ rose early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put at his head, set it up as a standing column, and poured oil on top of it.
Gen 28:19
And he called the name of that place Bĕyth Ěl, however, the name of that city had been Luz previously.
Gen 28:20
And Yaʽaqoḇ made a vow, saying, "Seeing Elohim is with me, and has kept me in this way that I am going, and has given me bread to eat and a garment to put on –
Gen 28:21
when I have returned to my father’s house in peace, and יהוה has been my Elohim,
Gen 28:22
then this stone which I have set as a standing column shall be Elohim’s house, and of all that You give me, I shall certainly give a tenth to You."
if you're wondering what translation i have it's "The Scriptures 1998" version:)
Shalom Alechiem and Barucha!

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JunieSparrow replied...
Mar. 28, 2013 at 10:44 pm

Read Genesis 16:11-12. 
The descendents of Esau were the Edomites (look at the root word -- red) and were destroyed and/or assimilated into the Jewish population around the time of the fall of Jerusalem (70-130 BC). 
Philistine, Palestine... 

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WarriorPuella replied...
Apr. 20, 2013 at 1:10 pm

So...It's untrue that Islam teaches it's followers to kill infidels?  I was always told that it did...  I wonder, though, how the extremists manage to justify it?
My mom was raised in a time when they all expected Russia to drop a b.omb on 'em, we've been raised in a time when we all are afraid the Islamic terrorists would attack.  So, I was probably raised with a few misconceptions of Muslims... :-/

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