Dess: S'okay. Good point.
Jesus was actually dead for 3 'earth' days. For those three days, he was actually in h.ell or hades. Plus, Jesus is God. And in that sense, it was God who died and went to hades/ he.ll.
What do you think about this now Dess?
lulz you don't want to know what I think of that :P
No but srsly, can I ask for Biblical references first that Jesus went to H.ell?
PB, it's not called procrastinating, it's called....wait for it......having a life XD
Jade: lol, your life is RPing:P i don't go on here as much as i used too:)
Dess: Jesus did not go to he.ll, it's speculation. hades can mean a lot of things. there's speculation that he went to he.ll and speculation that he just went to visit people in their graves, and there's a lot more speculations.i don't believe he went to he.ll becuase the dev.il does not rule in he.ll right now. i don't know what i really believe on this, but i do know that he didn't go to he.ll.
Shalom Alechiem and Barucha!
I'm not arguing against my own opinion, my opinion is just complex :P
I believe that the Bible is a tool, to be taken with a grain of salt.
Just like the quote Destinee used earlier in this thread, if the work of God and the word of God contradict, the fault is in the Word of God.
Also, to Packer and Contemplator:
3 days in H.ell is still infinitely better than an eternity in H.ell. How is it a just punishment?
I literally cannot understand what sory of god would allow a trip being carried by the devil(matt4). Aur enjoy a trip to he.ll or hades whatever that is. Dess, you switched from deism to agnosticism? :p
The fault could also be in your interpretation of the word of God or your understanding of the work of God, btw :P
Dynamo: Agnostic theism :)
OK if H.ell means spiritual separation from God, there is no way that Jesus could have separated from himself. It's Juliet's Principle. a=a, there is never a case where a does not equal a. It's rationality. (Breece of course thinks logic doesn't apply to God, but for the rest of us who do think logic emanates from the very being of God..)
Just real quick breece, lemme know watcha think of this: h ttp://www.born-again-chri stian.info/answers/is-gene sis-true-history-or-allego ry-symbolic-poetry-myth. htm.
The guys a complete idiot, except the end is interesting. Start reading at the bottom: "Where's the Salt?"
Desstinee: Ah, that accounts for it.:D
Ah, I've heard that argument many times before :)
Here's a link from a university website explaining why ocean salinity is not a reliable dating method:
ht tp://orgs.usd.e du/esci/age/content/failed_scientific_clocks/ocean_salinity.html
Hows that for a reliable source :P
Lol well I was more asking ur opinion than presenting an argument anyway. I had five minutes of free time and stumbled across that guy. So yeah. Like I said, this weekend I'll get to it. Thanks
I think one of the main reasons I stopped protesting evolution as a Christian was the fact that all of the modern Christian scholars I most respect believe in an old earth.
William Lane Craig, John Polkinghorne, John Lennox, Francis Collins, Norman Geisler, Mark Noll, Timothy Keller, etc. The list could go on for pages.
There just aren't any Young Earth Creationists writing anything worth reading, to be honest. The shallowness of most of their points of argument eroded my faith as an early teen rather than deepening and expanding it, like the writings of these men have.
Lewis and Chesterton are the sole examples, though their point of conflict was the lack of transitional forms at the time (turn of 20th century) that have now been, at least partially, found. They didn't believe evolution had any of the massive metaphysical ramifications that people like Pat whatshisface claim it does.
exceptions, not examples. *Facepalm*
ht tp://www.youtube.c om /watch?v=5bKa92eLkQM
okay yeah. i get your point, i really do. I've stated before that i don't like debating the Big Bang or literal creationism or anything like that. the only thing is, i don't believe that humans evolved from apes. i believe Adam and Eve were made by God firsthand. other than that, i'm open to speculation :P
Idk. i don't even think it really matters :/
good link collin. a little vague but still helpful :)
Congratulations, you now have exactly the same view on this as my mother. :P
She says she could believe pretty much everything about evolution, etc, but she at least has to believe that humans didn't come from Apes and that Adam and Eve were created the way they were.
I'm not disagreeing with you (except I do :0), but I think it's interesting you have almost the exact same opinion :P
okay, so sorry i've been AWOL :P
"Why are we able to just push our sins on the backs of others?"
I'm assuming you mean Jesus, as my intelligent-self can deduct :P so.....
WE CAN'T. Not even those who killed Jesus had any power over him. Jesus answers Pilate, "You would have no power of me if it were not given to you from above."
We don't "push" our sins onto Jesus. He takes them up.
"Why can't we repent and be forgiven?"
Because nothing but the blood of Jesus Christ can fully pay for our sins. How could it be any other way?
Well... "It seems primitive."
LOL. yes, it does, doesn't it? If Christ were born today, in NYC, would he be crucified? No. It's a culture thing--so were the animal sacrifices. But it's the way God decreed--and just because something seems inhumane NOW doesn't mean it is.
"Why would wanting to be blameless and not having free will make you unworthy of heaven?"
I wasn't trying to insult you, i promise! I meant that if your heart isn't willing to follow God's commandments because you'll ultimately fail at being perfect, then that's a heart-problem. The reason we even have free will is that God is concerned with the heart. He wants us to WANT to love him. Loving him means obeying his commandments.
I'll get to the rest of this later, since I think my response has gotten a little long (for me).
1) Okay............. we're still putting our sins on someone else, regardless of their consent. That was my point, why should we be able to have someone else pay the price for our sins? This isn't a "why would Jesus do that for us?", this a, "How is it just for that to happen?" My anticipated response is, "God's Grace satisfies justice", well then why can't his grace go a little further and satisfy H.ell too? If His grace is truly boundless why can't he just let the peeps in H.ell go once they realize they're burning for eternity, why can't he just be like "pop" and everybody who doesn't love Jesus would realize why he's so great and they should love him.
I mean there's no reason not to love Jesus if you believe in him. Why can't God just freakin' show up and poof Jesus knowledge into everybody's head? Why does it have to be a test where he leaves the fate of thousands of people in the hand of Evangelism?
Why can't God's grace go further? There's certainly room for it
2) Well it could be all like, "I'm sorry God, I won't do it again", and then you not do it again.
And that's it. You just repent. And don't do it again. And go back to loving God.
No one gets nailed on a tree, no poor little sheepies get their throats ceremoniously cut out. Everybody goes home happy and forgiven.
Why does sin require bloodshed? Why doesn't it just require repentance and forgiveness?
That seems like the merciful and logical choice to me.
I'll be blatant and honest about how I feel, the sacrificial system in the Bible sound like Paganism to me. It sounds like Paganistic virtues creepin' into God's Word. That's what I honestly think it is, no offense.
3) Culture changes doesn't make something right though. Someone else dying for my sin doesn't seem right.
Gosh, I've been talking to Destinee too long, I'm starting to sound like her -_-
4) I didn't think you were trying to insult me silly :P I was just asking why you thought that.