PB you are a very heated debater :P
I see the verse. Did you see my verse?
Your verse says God created night and day.
My verse says God created the sun and moon, and on the third day at that.
Jade: yes i am:)
Breece: i think you're right on this one. there is no contridiction. Yahweh was the light. and don't tell me this isn't possible, look at this verse:
And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, to shine in it, for the esteem of Elohim lightened it, and the Lamb is its lamp.
Ive never read Revelations but that sounds like the most Allegorical verse ever ^
Okay, so I was wrong. I said "the sun and moon" when all I meant was night and day. Sorry guys.
But turns out we're all wrong.
And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
^ lol i guess we are all wrong:P
I get what you're saying about how the sun was created after plants and how this (if viewed literally) would be contradicting.
I think we need to remember that the earth worked differently back then. Men lived into their 900's, before Noah it hadn't rained, and until the Fall, animals were not for food.
It's kind of like the chicken or the egg thing. God created plants first, then nurished them with the sun. This makes sense on a literal time scale. They did not go long without sunlight.
Just take those things into consideration--the earth hasn't always followed the same rules it does today.
One more thing:
How can night and day exist before the moon and sun?
This is only a problem if we fail to take into account an infinite and omnipotent God. God does not need the sun, moon, and stars to provide light. God is light!
First John 1:5 declares, "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all." God Himself was the light for the first three days of Creation, just as He will be in the new heavens and new earth, “There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever” (Revelation 22:5). Until He created the sun, moon, and stars, God miraculously provided light during the “day” and may have done so during the “night” as well (Genesis 1:14).
Jesus said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life” (John 8:12). Much more important than the light of day and night is the Light who provides eternal life to all who believe in Him. Those who do not believe in Him will be doomed to “outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 8:12).
In this we see that in the “creation” stage, God made the sun and moon to govern, or become vessels for, the day and night. He wanted to make Earth inhabitable for humans, and because we cannot live in His full glory, He needed to confine the light and absence of light to the sun and moon.
I was referring to Rev 21:23. I think it's pretty clear that in the verse, "lamp" is being used as a metaphor.
Breece: I think the Bible (including Genesis) is literal. Just making that clear.
Breece: I miss your memes. Heres a video to inspire you to start posting memes again.
w ww.youtube.c om/watch?v=at68PMbgyhw&list=SP5D3BFF118D8928BC
You probably feel like a rubber band that is stretched in impossible directions at this point. The only person who posted on this thread and doesn't disagree with you is Dess. And she didn't even post her opinion on the topic.
You said, and quote "We are seeing this picture unveiled from the perspective of the author of Genesis to whom this vision was revealed to, (probably Moses)"
I agree with you that Moses probably wrote Genesis. But your description is what Moses might have seen if God gave Moses a vision. We don't know if God revealed the beginning through a vision. Infact, judging from Exodus, God didn't normally give Moses visions to record. He told Moses everything to write, word for word. So, it would be more logical to think that God is telling Moses exactly what to write.
As far as the moon and stars thing, I agree with Jaded. God doesn't need the sun to create a day, he's just using the sun to help us measure the day. There is a difference.
After Contemplator's rather straight forward post (which I did not understand at all:P) I guess we'd stick with science:)
Now come on, can you really believe that what Moses wrote has come to us in the purest form when the verses compiled some thousand years late after him were obviously corrupted?
Just saying. :P
sorry destinee i was misunderstanding you:)
dynamo: other things have been corrupted but the first five books(Torah) didn't.
"For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done
Hi guys! I was off on a Mini World Changers trip. It was great :D
Anyways, onto business:
I don't think you exactly understand the extent of what I'm trying to say.
The people living for 900 years, the global flood, the God lighting the world with himself,
all allegorical, in my opinion :)
Same thing pretty much goes for you, I'm just arguing the possibility of Genesis being allegorical.
Yeah, I was pretty sure you were. Same thing goes for you though :P
I kind of agree with you, I think some parts of it are true though, in an allegorical sense.
Using the Bible to prove the Bible's credibility isn't that effective :P
In that case, who can argue with you?
I'm pretty sure I DID know what you were arguing.
Was I to confusing? Did nobody get what I was saying? I want to know because I don't want to explain myself but I will if I have to. :P
Made perfect sense to me. I'm being ignored too :P.
p.s. will somebody go onto the random thoughts forum and check out this nutjob, An_Empty_Shell? He's freaking me out -.-
I was just making the point that scripture would not contradict an allegorical explanation.
My evidence in support of such an explanation is that observation and science support such a theory.
And actually Contemplator, I just forgot about your post xD
Just because God spoke to him word for word doesn't mean he didn't describe it from an Earthly perspective.
I'll post some more memes :P