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kmeep replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 2:35 pm

RarelyJaded: Genesis 1. Even if people who aren't Christian don't believe this, as a Christian, this is what I believe, so in a way, yes, God told me. Breece: If this argument was purely based on scientific evidence with all religion gone, we may come to a conclusion that the Big Bang is possibly how the world was created, but it wouldn't be definite. There are other theories of how the word came to be.

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Likeaboss427 replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 3:05 pm

they say the big bang was acually qiute small. And soundless. But I dont believe in the big bang.

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 4:24 pm

Packerbacker:
 
"This website doesn't prove anything"
 
Thank you for that enlightening response full of thought and reasoning.  
 
It proves that the Bible says the Earth is the center of the universe and that the sun and planets rotate around it.  
 
I honestly question your age, you said you were 16 and in High school and yet you've never heard about the Geocentric theory?  You've never heard about how the Church fought against Galileo when he tried to prove the Heliocentric theory?  These are things you learn in middle school at the latest.  
 
Also you rarely reply to an entire post of mine, you usually just nitpick at one or two things I say.  
 
Kmeep:
 
Background radiation, the universe expanding, all the things CollinF said in his post, etc.
 
We've got plenty of evidence to prove the Big Bang. 
 
There are people who still believe the World's flat, doesn't make it true.  
 
Do you believe the Earth is the center of the universe?  'Cause the Bible says so.

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 4:27 pm

Breece, where does the bible say the earth is the center of the universe?

Kmeep: that still isn't a valid argument. I'm trying to tell you that you won't get anywhere by saying "God told me". I believe that Genesis was literal but I also believe IT DOESN'T MATTER. If the Big Bang happened, God caused it.

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 4:29 pm

Here's an entire website giving and explaining all the Bible verses that suggest the Geocentric theory. 
 
If you don't believe them, explain how they're literal.
 
:)
 
ht tp://hypertextbook.c om/eworld/geocentric.shtml

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 4:35 pm

breece: i don't have to waste my time on a website that is trying to nitpick the Bible to say something that isn't true. and i would rather reply to maybe  a constructed paragraph that YOU wrote. because i honestly don't think you gave me any questions to answer. so you're worng because everytime you've givin me points to answer i replied, but you simply did not give me anything to answer other than do you believe the earth is the center of the universe? and the answer is no. you need to break it down.
 
Shalom ALechiem!

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 4:36 pm

breece: i don't have to waste my time on a website that is trying to nitpick the Bible to say something that isn't true. and i would rather reply to maybe a constructed paragraph that YOU wrote. because i honestly don't think you gave me any questions to answer. so you're worng because everytime you've givin me points to answer i replied, but you simply did not give me anything to answer other than do you believe the earth is the center of the universe? and the answer is no. you need to break it down.
 
Shalom ALechiem!

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 4:52 pm

Packerbacker:
 
I haven't given you anything?  I, Collin, and several others have given you mounds of evidence.
 
Background radiation
Universal Expansion
The Abundance of "Light Elements"
 
ALL you have given us is "The Bible says it's not true".
 
Then give you a source explaining in perfect detail that the Bible supports the Geocentric theory and that the sky is solid and that the world is flat and that stars are no more than little points in the sky and you spend all of about ten seconds on it and then reply saying the website is "nitpicking".
 
You want a paragraph about it?  Sure. 
 
Joshua 10:12-13
Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.
 
This indicates that the Sun is the one moving over the Earth.
 
1 Chronicles 16:30
tremble before him, all earth; yea, the world stands firm, never to be moved.
 
This says that the Earth is unmoving.
 
Daniel 4:10-11
The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth; and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.
 
This suggests that the Earth is flat, else how could you see the whole of it by growing tall?  The opposite end of the earth would still be obscured.
 
Job 28:24
For he looks to the ends of the earth, and sees everything under the heavens.
 
The earth has no ends, it is a sphere.
 
Isaiah 41:9
you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, "You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off";
 
The Earth has no corners or edge, it is a sphere.
 
Job 37:18
Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
 
The sky is not solid, it is an atmosphere made of gas.
 
Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
 
If a star fell onto Earth it would completely consume it, a star is hundreds of thousands of times bigger than the Earth.
 
If you are to take all of this literally you must believe you are living on a flat Earth with a solid sky spread like a tent above us containing tiny dots of light known as stars.  
 
The Sun must rotate around the Earth in the heavens, just as the moon does, and the Earth is still and unmoving.
 
I look forward to a response :)

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 5:07 pm

Since you gave me a website, I'll give you excerpts of some. If you don't want to read it all, then look at my last sentence:)


1 Paralipomenon 16:30 "Let ALL the earth be MOVED at His presence: for he hath founded the world immoveable."



Explanation: Let all the PEOPLES of the earth be spiritually moved, that is let their hearts and minds be spiritually moved to the grace and presence of the Lord, because the Lord has found the PEOPLES of the earth stubborn in their hearts and minds.



For example in Acts 17:5 the word MOVED denotes a movement in the soul, "But the Jews, MOVED with envy..."

Movement of grace in souls is opposed to an immoveable (stubborn in heart) world as is denoted in: Psalms 94:8 "To day if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts"

1 Paralipomenon 16:30 is not saying that PLANET earth stands still, but that the peoples of the earth are stubborn and immoveable in their hearts and minds.


Often, what seems to be a reflection of the ignorance of the Bible writer is easily resolved once we see that we have interpreted the verses wrongly.

• Psalm 93:1 "The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved."

• 1 Chronicles 16:30 tremble before him, all earth; yea, the world stands firm, never to be moved.

These seem to suggest that the writers were ignorant men, locked into the errant worldview of their day, thinking that the earth is immobile. However, the same language is also used to refer to the righteous man:

• Psalm 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me; because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved.

Clearly, David isn’t saying that he has now become immobile because the Lord is with him. Instead, he is saying that he will not be broken or destroyed. Likewise, the first two verses are not suggesting that the earth and world are immobile, but rather that they will not be destroyed.

Instead, it’s clear that the Bible isn’t teaching that the world is immobile:

• Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.


Psalm 93:1-2 “The LORD reigns, He is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed, He has girded Himself with strength. Surely the world is established, so that it cannot be moved. 
2Your throne is established from of old; You are from everlasting.” There are several elements here that would argue against the earth’s immobility:



1. From this context, the permanence of the earth would seem to glorify God – and that’s what this Psalm is about – more than its immobility.



2. There seems to be a Hebrew synonymous parallelism in place here. “The world is established” seems to be parallel with “Your throne is established.” If this is the case, then “it cannot be moved” is parallel with “You are from everlasting.” As such, it argues that the world/earth is everlasting.



3. The phrase “cannot be moved,” is often associated with the protection that God gives to His people, not immobility. There is no reason why we shouldn’t apply this understanding here.



4. In this regards, I also like Job 26:7: “He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.” If the Bible’s position is that the earth doesn’t rest on anything, this too would argue against the earth’s immobility.



Many a skeptic claims that the Bible depicts a flat earth. Scriptural references such as Revelation 7:1 are cited, which speaks of “four angels standing at the four corners of the earth.” However, this passage makes reference to the cardinal directions as seen on a compass – i.e. north, south, east and west. Terminology to a similar effect is used today when we speak of the sun rising and setting each day, even though we know that it is, in fact, the earth which orbits around the sun.

Another passage often referred to is Psalm 75:3, which speaks of God holding the pillars firm. However, the psalms are written in the poetry genre. Rather than referring to literal pillars, this is representative of God’s guaranteeing the earth’s stability. Even when the moral order of the world seems to have crumbled, God will not fully withdraw His sustaining power.

In contrast to the supposed “flat earth” verses, there are numerous Scriptures that clearly indicate otherwise. The earth is described in Job 26:7 as being suspended over empty space, implying a spherical figure. This notion is further entertained in Isaiah 40:21-22, which refers to “the circle of the earth.” This is further supported by Proverbs 8:27 (NKJV), which speaks of God drawing a circle on the face of the deep. From a “bird’s-eye view” of the ocean, the horizon is seen as a circle. Such an observation indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins, describing the reality of day and night on a spherical earth.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/flat-earth-Bible.html#ixzz2Lwx6Ovlc



Job 37:18
Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
~ if you’re using all of these scriptures against God because they don’t coincide with science…. This passage is a key example of how NOT to interpret scriptures. Of course God can walk on air, he can walk on water too, HE IS GOD. It’s AS IF the skies were as hard as molten mirror.
Proverbs 8:27-29
When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
~This actually proves that the Bible does not teach that the earth is flat.
Isaiah 40:22
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;
~ um…. LIKE a tent. –cough- metaphor, anyone?

Look, Breece, I could try and refute these all day, but I won’t. There’s several sights that could do that for you, as you’ve given me a lengthy one AGAINST the bible’s legitimacy. And I’m not going to read the entire list of complications in the bible between it and science. If you want a specific one refuted, or even several, I will do that, otherwise we need to start a separate thread.

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 5:11 pm

Alright, this keeps not posting. And I can't find the problem. 
 
Look, Breece, I could try and refute these all day, but I won’t because I don't have the time. There’s several sights that could do that for you, as you’ve given me a lengthy one AGAINST the bible’s legitimacy. And I’m not going to read the entire list of complications in the bible between it and science.
 
If you want a specific one refuted, or even several, I will do that, otherwise we need to start a separate thread. :) I don't wanna clutter this one, cuz we're not talking about the Big Bang anymore.
 

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 5:18 pm

breece you're so funny.
 
lets define somthing first shall we: prohpecy= going to happen and has not happened yet.
 
Joshua is speaking prophecy.
 
1 chronicles is saying that G-d has control and it will not go anywhere unless directed by G-d.
 
Daniel: another prohpecy.
 
Job: okay maybe not all things are literall. Job figurative speech.
 
Isaiah: another prohpecy.
 
Job: this is reffering to the wrath of the dev.il
 
matthew: prophecy
 
Shalom Alechiem!
 
 

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 5:46 pm

Why do you guys have to get so sarcastic and patronizing to each other?

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:23 pm

 
Packerbacker:
 
If you meant that first sentence as a snooty remark, it honestly came off as immature.
 
Prophecy?  
 
Joshua 10:12-13
 
How is this prophecy?  This is talking about something that happened to the Israellites, explain how that is prophecy.
 
Chronicles:  That means it is figurative and not literal.  You have conceded to it not being literal.
 
Daniel: What bearing does prophecy have on the fact that it describes the Earth as something flat that can be seen in its entirity from one position?
 
Job:  Exactly, and unless you can prove to me 100% the authorship of Genisis and why it should be taken as literal, I will treat it the same
 
Isaiah: Same as Daniel
 
Job: Again, figurative language, not literal, point proven.
 
Matthew:  Same as Daniel, but if I could, does this mean that the stars will fall to the earth at a later date?
 
Let's have some more shall we :)
 
Psalms 96:10
Say among the nations, "The Lord reigns! Yea, the world is established, it shall never be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity."
 
More evidence for the Earth never moving
 
Job 38:4-6
Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements -- surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what wereits bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone?
 
The Earth has a conerstone?  Or bases?  Since when?
 
Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the worldand the glory of them;
 
This shows something that happened in the Bible to Jesus.
 
How could Jesus have seen all the Kingdoms of the Earth?  What about in South America?  Or China?
 
His firstling bull has majesty, and his horns are the horns of a wild ox; with them he shall push the peoples, all of them, to the ends of the earth; such are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and such are the thousands of Manasseh.
 
There is no end of the Earth, it is spherical.
 
"And you, O son of man, thus says the Lord God to the land of Israel: An end! The end has come upon the four corners of the land.
 
There are no corners of the Earth.
 
Proverbs 8:27-29
When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
 
The sky is not firm, it is a gas.
 
Isaiah 40:22
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; whostretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;
 
The atmosphere is not spread out like a curtain, it is filled in like a solution of gas that it is.
 
1 Corinthians 15:40-41
There are celestial bodies and there are terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another, There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
 
The sun and stars are different, since when?
 
Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventh day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth and the windows of the heavens were opened.
 
What are the windows of heaven?  The clouds?  Seems pretty figurative.  And not literal.  And this one's from Genisis too.
 
Looking forward to a response :)

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:25 pm

RarelyJaded:
 
We did talk about the Big Bang, Me and Collin, among others, provided evidence.  Packerbacker's response was that the Bible said differently.
 
This is relevent because it is implying the consequences of taking the Bible literally.  
 
I suggested that he hasn't been replying to all my points or reading my posts thouroughly, he replied with "you have no points to read", I pointed out my arguments, and he said "you're so funny".
 
He's the one avoiding things with patronage here.  I'm more than glad to reply to every and any point he has to make.

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:26 pm

i will tommorow sorry i don't have time right now for a lenghty reply:)
 
Shalom Alechiem!
 
And yes not everything in the Bible is literall your point is proven.

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:27 pm

nice little rant you got there breece
 

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:28 pm

THANK YOU JESUS
 
I love you now.  I won't be rude anymore, since you were nice then :)

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:35 pm

Breece, I'm confused about the first part of your reply to me... I get the last 2 paragraphs.

Hey, I made a thread where we can discuss things like geocentrism in the bible and stuff:) interested?

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:38 pm

RarelyJaded:
 
The first part of my reply was meant to justify the conversation we were having in regards to it being in a "Big Bang" thread.  
 
However yes, I'd be more than happy to talk in your thread :D

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 25, 2013 at 6:40 pm

Yay!! You always bring a challenge;)

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