Also, applying a negative connotation to "bound" is somewhat irrelevant because its an opinion.
*sighs* I think I might be coming off heated tonight:( It's not my intention.
Millions of Muslims and J.ews follow the law. I'm pretty sure they don't feel trapped.
Love of a perfect being engenders obedience, and obedience engenders love.
The law doesn't state that we can completely atone for our sins. It's a common Christian misunderstanding that J.ews or Muslims think that.
*sigh* I agree with your second sentence. That's basically the argument PB and I have been having. The definition of "bound" and how eventually, though we ARE NOT bound by the law, if we love God we will still obey Him. That's scriptural:).
I don't mean to misunderstand your feelings. I was talking about how it's impossible to fully obey the old law. So, can you explain the third paragraph? I don't know much about Islam. Lol, I feel like we should have a Muslim & Christian post (it's hard to argue two things at once). Oh, and are you still going to respond to the trinity thing? You haven't commented back in a while, but I typed a thorough answer:).
Oh, and p.s. I was born in Calgary, Alberta but now I live in indiana. Forgot to answer about that:)
Cool XD I've never been to Alberta unfortunately.. YEP I'm actually typing up that reply right now... it's gonna be one of my signature novel-length posts haha. :P
Okay, first of all, to understand the Islamic POV, you have to understand that in Islam, God has made the rules. And in Islam, justice is ultimately God's will.
So we do good deeds cuz:
a) God said to, and we love God and are grateful to Him
b) We wanna get to Heaven and partaaaay (joke joke but srsly :P )
c) It provides OUR OWN SELVES with proof that we are striving to remain conscious of God. Otherwise we'd live in constant insecurity.
d) The more good deeds we do, the more conscious we remain of God, in general.
e) Good deeds lead to good things :) Especially socially relevant deeds, like, say, charity.
But no matter what we do, we can never "repay" God for every blessing He has bestowed on us.
But God doesn't judge us by the # of our deeds. He judges us by our intentions. And if sincerely tried our best to REPENT and DO GOOD and would have done so for a 1000 more years if we had the choice, He is MERCIFUL and FORGIVING and we get into Heaven BY HIS MERCY.
The deeds are more temporal, it's the sincerity that counts.
And it is not unjust because:
a) Like I said, God makes the rule, He's not bound by some human definition of "justice" or "forgiveness"
b) Since we are sinning against God, and HE is the Judge (i.e. He's not under the constraint of someone else's law), if He chooses to forgive us, then it is just. Justice DOES NOT mean punishment. Justice means justice, which in some cases in punishment, in some cases is forgiveness.
I'm typing fast so if something doens't make sense, sorry :) Cheers.
The scary thing is, I agree with everything you just said. So I don't understand how it is a refute to what I posted O.o except that I asked you to explain your third paragraph...
The reason I disagreed with what you originally said is that the law needed to be fulfilled by Jesus, because by our works we can never get to heaven (we agree on that... The inability to obey all of God's commandments all the time?). This is why grace was needed to replace the old law. Jesus payed the price for us all, so that we could be confident in our salvation. But I guess that's the reason we're clashing in ideas. I believe Jesus is who he said he is, but you believe he never said he was god in the first place. So..... Idk.
Haha well as long as you don't say it's impossible... :)
Also, just to be clear:
It's not JUST about obeying God's commandments 100% of the time (which is def very hard if not impossible), it's also about being grateful to Him and remembering Him ALL the time. Which nobody really does, and you could spend a million lifetimes but still not fully thank Him for the very tongue with which you speak.
Also, yeah, in my view, God's grace didn't need to be Him coming down and being sacrificed. In my view, God's grace is simply forgiveness. No strings attached XD
destinee: i agree 100%(unless i missed something)
when i was a christian i always thought man those christians and muslims are stupid they don't have to follow that terrible law. until i realized that it wasn't such a terrible law it is the law of G-d so how can it be unjust. if you look at this "terrible" law you will notice that really they are simple life aplications. i'll take pork and shellfish for example. the Bible tells you not to eat of it and then all of the sudden 5000 years later scientists are discovering how unhealthy pork and shellfish are. shows to prove our G-d isn't stupid.(never said you said that)
and ever since i follow the law of G-d i've noticed more blessings and not curses.
oops the second paragraph is pointed towards Jade.
Haha Packet, I'm glad we can agree :) btw Muslims follow a law that is oftentimes very similar to Judaic law XD we don't eat pork for instance. Some legal schools don't eat shellfish either.
destinee: reread your last post. packet lol:) i'm packer not packey:) yes i am aware of the muslims following a similar law.
Sorry my phone autocorrects haha
You were born in Alberta!? Cool.
I live in Leduc, Alberta, just outside of Edmonton, which is about three hours from Calgary.
Did you live in Alberta long?
Anyways, on topic:
I agree with packer in saying that the laws gave us are for our own good.
Following the Ten Commandments strenghten our relationship with God and with our fellow man.
I also follow the health laws, since God created my body and he obviously knows what's best for it.
I lived there until I was five.
Guys, I never said the law was bad. I just said it was inadequate. It needed to be fulfilled. I believe we SHOULD obey the commandments. Once again, it's how you define the term "bound" by the law.
Nobody responded to my post about the Romans verse, cuz we started comparing Islam and Christianity. Half.note and PB, can you please tell me what you think of that? (It's on the previous page).
Jade: gladly i will tell you what i think. the verse romans 6:14 is talking about the talmud(pharisee law) :)
No, it's actually talking about the ancient law or the Mosaic law. The greek word for law in the passage is "vouov" which is used numerous times in the new testament to refer to the scriptures Mosaic Law. It's pretty much a word that we would use to say "Old Testament" or the "Books of the Law". It's refering to the covenant that God made with Moses and the people of Israel.
What the verse is saying is that we are no longer under that covenant. We have a new covenant, Jesus, who fulfilled the old covenant. The word "kupieuoei" is used in Greek which is translated into "Lord over". No longer are we saved by the old covenant that was made, but by the new covenant.
But a lot of straight forward j.ews don't necessarily believe in the new covenant, so if that's the case, then this is really obselete.
no, it's actually talking about the talmud( pharisee law.) he is saying that the pharisaiic law doesn't save you only grace which comes through the old testament law:)
PB, J actually had background to his argument, at least more than simply saying "that's not true!"
I would have to disagree.
The very translation of the word Law in the origin of Greek defines the Mosaic Law. It's not really my opinion, but by definition of the word "vouov" which is the word used for law, it means the Books of the Law, or the Mosaic Covenant. The Talmud basis its principles off of the Old Testament laws, but it also includes alot of the Pharisee's opinions about certain topics which I don't believe Jesus was intending to cover in this instance.
Also, Grace does not come from the Old Testament Law. The whole point of those laws were so that people could atone for their sins by going through regulations and living up to a certain standard. That is completely contrary to the concept of grace. Grace is a FREE gift that we can recieve only because of Jesus taking the punishment for ours sin and hammering it on the cross. Grace came through Jesus Christ, not the Old Testament law. If nothing else, that point should be made very clear.