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Bound by the Old Testament Law?

packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 5:35 pm

i had a long post and it messed up nooooo!

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 5:53 pm

these aren't my words:
 
This verse clarifies what Paul was saying with his analogy (verse 1-4) and looks ahead to what will be said in chapter 8. In "dying" to sin, and making room in your will to "let God in," a person is now governed by the "positive commandments" of the Torah (i.e. walking according to the Spirit and not the flesh, re: 8:1-15).
Paul makes it clear that we still serve God (i.e., follow His ways as He gave in the Torah.) A person must serve one of two masters. He is either "bound" in the oldness of the letter to serve his Yetzer Hara (evil inclination), or he is "freed" from this inclination to serve God. (Of course this does not mean he will never sin - even King David sinned, yet he declared himself [in Psalms, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit] to be "righteous according to the Torah.")
 
Shalom Alechiem!

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:00 pm

I'm at work right now so I don't have a lot of time to write out my argument, but I will try to do that as soon as possible.
 
However, I just wanted tell you, packerbacker, that I agree with you. We are still bound by the Old Testament Laws. In fact, even though I'm a Protestant Christian, I still keep the 4th commandment, the Jewish Sabbath.
 
I will try to post soon!
 
God Bless. <3

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:06 pm

I agree that we SHOULD obey the law... But we are not bound by it. John 14.15-17 and John 14.21 state that clearly (about obeying the law). What I'm saying is, the law was replaced with a new covenant. Jesus.

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:07 pm

Lol, I LITERALLY meant Jesus, before anyone misunderstands:)

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:07 pm

someone belives the same:) please help me out when you're off work:) i'm a little busy with homework and i had a whole page written out. then i pressed back and it all dissapeared:(
 
Shalom Alechiem!
 
P.S.: it's not the Jew.ish sabbath it's the sabbath that was given to all men to rest on. just very few people do.

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:12 pm

packerbacker:
 
Yes, I am aware of that, my friend.
I just call it the Jewish Sabbath to distinguish that I keep it from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset.
 
I promise my post will come soon! :D

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:12 pm

Rarelyjaded: i have asked many christians where in the bible it talks about the new coveant. i mean i can qoute you the coeavent that is to be FOREVER. but i just simply can't find the new coveant. could you help me:)
 
Shalom Alechiem!

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:13 pm

Hey, guys, I keep the sabbath! Even the Jewish one! :P

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:14 pm

Yeah, hold on. I'm doing homework too.

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:31 pm

really well if you keep the jewish one i've got a question. what do they call the sabbath(without looking it up) it's the hebrew word for sabbath:)
 
Shalom Alechiem!

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:34 pm

Ummm.... Really? That's not fair:(

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 7:01 pm

lol:) it's shabbat pronounced: sha-bought:)
 
Shalom Alecheim pronounced: sha-lome aley-chem:)

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 8:58 pm

 
So, here’s my argument. Sorry it took so long:)
 
Gal. 3:23-25: “But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor (to lead us) to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. " NO MORE (Old Testament) LAW. V. 26 “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.” Everything in the New Testament covenant is by faith, not law.
 
Rom.11:6 “And if by grace then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. but if it is by works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." It is either one or the other it can't be both, these are two different covenants.If you choose to be under one then you are removed from the other.
 
Rom. 6:14-15 “For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.”
 
Paul made it clear through his writings "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." (Gal 2:21). Gal 2:19: "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.” in other words, Paul is saying the law is dead to him. We don't use what is dead to have life.
 
Those who had been under the law ( the Jewish people) had been delivered from it to something far better and so has the church.
 
Rom. 7:6: “But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
 
Rom 8:3-6 “For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” It is the Spirit inside the believer that we are to obey to walk according to Jesus.
 
1 Cor. 15:57 “the strength of sin is the law.” But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
 
Gal 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”
 
The New Testament focus and exalts Christ not the law. So what is the law for today? Paul tells us “that the law is good if one uses it lawfully” (Tim. 1:8). So what is the law for today if it is still considered good?
 
Look at Paul’s interpretation in 1 Tim.1:9, that law is made NOT for good men but FOR law breakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious." Is this not the law that states all have fallen short of the glory of God? Good men would be those who repent and follow Christ, not the Old Testament laws.
 
As for the “New Covenant”:
**Hebrews 8.8-13 “Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4 If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”[a] 6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
 
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said: … (you can look up the middle part if you want)… 13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.”
 
**And Luke 22:20 “In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.”
 
*2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (New International Version (NIV)) “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
 
 
And once again, I apologize for the long response. :) I hope you'll read all of it... *crosses fingers*

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 10:03 pm

 
RarelyJaded:
 
Really? You keep Saturday as the Sabbath? That's cool. Do you go to church that day too?
May I ask what religion/denomination you are?
 
Anyways, I kind of actually agree with you.
 
No one was saved by the Old Covenant.
 
However, the Old Covenant is still part of the New:
 
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
(Jeremiah 31:31-34)
 
 
James chapter 2 quotes the Ten Commandments, as well as highlighting the importance of faith in Jesus and works:
 
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." (James 2:10-11)
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" (James 2:14)
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17)
 
 
Now, what exactly is the Old Covenant?
 
The Old Covenant is the promise that man made to God to follow his commandments. At Mount SInai, when God spoke to his people and gave them the Law, they make a promise:
"And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient." (Exodus 24:7)
 
Now, were the Israelites able to keep this promise?
Definitely not. They were profaning God's name and participating in idolatry not too soon after!
 
That's because the Old Covenant is a promise that man makes to God, which is sure to fail because man has no power within himself to obey God.
 
So, no one is saved ny the Old Covenant.
 
But we are saved by the New Covenant which is God's promise to man to make in him a new heart:
 


"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.


And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." (Ezekiel 36:26-27)


 


Notice: we are saved by the New Covenant, but we are also required to follow the laws of the Old Covenant.
 
 
 
Okay, well I hopw I was clear.
Any questions? Feel free to ask.
 
God bless. <3

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 10:04 pm

Oops, sorry for the random bolding. Don't know why it does that.  o.O

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 10:07 pm

half.note: must i say again:)amen sister:) you have a lot better argument than me. i have a question what exactly do you believe it seems as though we believe quite similarly. not sure though.
 
Shalom alechiem!

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 10:15 pm

First off, I am non-denominational Christian (on a side note, my dad is the pastor of the church :) ) ... No, I do not obey the sabbath on Saturdays... Sorry for the confusion! Anyways... I think we are agreeing at this point. There is a verse where Jesus says I did not come to abolish the old law but to fulfill it... Is anybody reading what I'm posting? It's just that I feel like scripture says blatantly what the truth is, but somehow I'm being misunderstood. *sighs*

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 10:19 pm

Sorry, that was directed towards half.note:)

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 10:29 pm

jade could you just say what you believe i'm very confused it seems as though you have mixed views:)
 
Shalom Alechiem!

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