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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 10:21 am

Breece: not sure what you mean by that i read the verse what's the contradiction? and wiki is not credible for anything.
 
Shalom alechiem!

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Artgirl1999 replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 11:08 am

Breece: You don't seem to have very good backup for your Bible-has-contradictions argument....just saying. But that's not the point, is it? How does finding contradictions in the Bible relate to evolution anyway?

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 11:12 am

well artgirl i asked him for a challenge and instead of it being an evolution thoery challenge for some reason he changed the subject to Bible contridictions which he obviously doesn't no what he's talking about.
 
Shalom alechiem!

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Artgirl1999 replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 12:42 pm

Just out of curiosity- this is totally not relevant- what does Shalom alechiem mean? It's cool how you end all your posts with it.

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 1:29 pm

it is Hebrew for Peace be with you or peace be unto you. it's a common greeting in Israel shalom is peace and alechiem is unto you, or with you.
 
Shalom Alechiem!

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 2:24 pm

 
"Obviously doesn't know what he's talking about"
 
Oooh, some of us are getting mean.  I guess it's time for a novel length post where I win forever then :D
 
First of all, on the first page Leafy posted this: 
 
packerbacker: 
I think what Breece was trying to say that God didn't write the Bible---man did.
 
along with a question to you asking how you rationalized evolution.
 
To which you replied:
 
give me an example and i'll prove you wrong. challenge?
 
Now being myself I assumed you were referring to my comment about the Biblical fallibility.  I can now see that you were in fact referring to the question posed by Leafy.
 
That explains why I changed that to the subject, after I explain Judges 1:19 I will address this challenge of yours to Leafy.
 
 
In regards to the specifics of my argument with Judges 1:19:
 
Judges 1:19 (as I stated earlier in the thread) says that God Almighty was incapable of driving out a native people from a valley because they had Iron Chariots. 
 
If God is all powerful, why does it say he could not do something?  It doesn't say he did not, it says could not.  Furthermore if your response to this is that God was limited
by the Israelites unwillingness to fight the Iron Chariots, why does it cite God as the one who could not do something.  In fact if everything is "predestined" as you have claimed
how is it logically possible that God could or could not do something? 
 
In regards to your actual challenge:
 
There are tons of examples of evolution, and yes, that includes species changing.  The Cichlids, a type of fish that lives in Africa, are one of the more notable ones.  They have evolved into hundreds of different species that can all be traced back.  The famous finch's that Darwin studied are a good one, the Peppered Moths.  The Three Toed SKink has evolved WITHIN our lifetime from laying eggs to live birth.  That is a HUGE change biologically speaking, in an incredibly small amount of time.  We have recorded over 50,000 generations of E-coli making drastic changes that render them immune to our own generations of anti-bacterial weapons.  
 
You seem to be caught up in the misconception about Micro-Evolution and Macro-evolution.  Here's a trip for ya, they are the same thing.  The only difference is time scale.  "Microevolution" is just the details of macroevolution. 
 
Here's an entire site from PBS that explains evolution: ht tp://www.pbs.o rg/wgbh/evolution/
 
The argument against evolution in the scientific community is non-existent.  The media has recently been blowing up with stories about the .00001% of scientists that don't believe in evolution.  That is not the mainstream.  That's not where the anttbiotics that cure your cold are coming from. 
 
If evolution didn't make sense, none of the antibiotics or flu shots you take would ever work, it's that essential of a theory in biology.  
 
Here's a nice source about it from a college website: ht tp://anthro.palomar.e du/evolve/evolve_3.htm
 
In regards to the "Wiki" not being reliable enough and wanting credible sources:
 
All right, I'll bite, I'll give you some real sources then:
 
The Bible Unearthed - a book by Archaeologists of Ancient Israel and Mesopotamia that explains the evidence against the Exodus ever happening.
 
The Age of Reason - by Thomas Paine, a book criticizing institutionalized religion and the legitmacy of the Bible.  
 
Dictionaire Philosophique - by Voltaire, a book containing many articles about Christianity, morality, and religion in general.  
 
The Birth of the Messiah: A Commentary on the Infancy Narratives in Matthew and Luke - Raymond Brown, a book about the inconsistencies of the gospel
 
Have at it if you may sir :)
 
P.S.
 
This is what you get when you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about :P

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:04 pm

Arg, how can I possibly keep up?
 
I have so much to say just no time to say it.
 
Okay, listen, could everyone just please stop posting until I have time to reply? :)

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 6:14 pm

same thing happened here as the other thread i lost my page post. oh well. i'll wait for you half.note:)
 
Shalom Alechiem!

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An-eloquent-leafThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 7:16 pm

Sorry half.note, but I'm gonna go ahead and put this post up (since I haven't replied in a couple pages either, and we aren't debating each other)...
 
Hm...not quite sure now whether or not I should answer something that had to do with the recent confusion with Breece/packerbacker? Anyway, I'll try to reply to another bit a couple pages ago to packer. I don't have time to write out full examples or even much of a long post (just to let the newbies know, I rarely do, now that rowing has started---so if it seems like I'm ignoring your post for a while, most likely I'm in the process of writing my post or will when I have time). 
 
Anyway. Packer, for me you can sorta add my post with Breece's recent post in the part concerning evolution (though I didn't check his links out), especially the section about viruses/bacteria. I know he didn't mention much about them, so if you'd like me to go into a bit of detail about viruses/bacteria, I'll try (though you might be better off googling).
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but given what you've been saying, I'm assuming that speciation is your drawing for your belief in evolution. But I'll ask: Why? Sure, it's on a smaller scale, but the ideas between micro-evolution and macro-evolution are pretty much the same.
 
A common ancestor evolved into what organisms live today by random mutations. The negatively-mutated-organisms were swiftly weeded out (i.e. organisms living with an extra chromosome, since they can't produce offspring); neutrally-mutated-organisms just kinda stay in the game without much effect (i.e. something changes in an organism's DNA triplet/codon, but the relating amino acid remains unchanged); and postively-mutated-organisms thrive, and even can push out their related organisms out of the picture (i.e. a Darwinian finch created with a longer beak, allowing it to eat more bugs and grow stronger---and therefore gain greater fitness---than the surrounding finches).
 
But I digress. (I kinda feel like I'm preaching to the choir here...)
 
On one last (if a bit cheeky) note, packer, since you often seem to be so eager to mention how Scripture does/doesn't support an idea-- I don't see a verse in the Bible arguing against the theory of evolution ;)

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 20, 2013 at 7:24 pm

i'll quickly reply to the micro verses macro evolution then respond to the others later. i'm a bit behind in school:) micro-evolution is the variation within kinds which is purely scientific. a dog produces another kind of dog but it is still a dog. now macro evolution is the change of a species turning into another species in the course of a long period of time. which has never been observed and therefore science propaganda. got to go for now:)
 
Shalom Alechiem!

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 21, 2013 at 12:43 am

Okay, well, thanks, everyone, for abstaining from posting for my sake.
And I was only being half.serious about that, too.
 
Anyways, I will try to post soon, but it' already 10:30 in my time zone and I need to take a shower before bed.
 
I've already started typing out my replies, and will try to post tomorrow.
 
Thanks, again.
 
God bless. ♥

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 21, 2013 at 10:10 am

i just didn't want to retype my reply:)
 
Shalom Alechiem!

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 21, 2013 at 12:09 pm

packerbacker:
 
Macroevolution is the same thing as Microevolution except on a large scale, I think you agreed with that. 
 
Your argument is like looking at a graph of y=x and saying "I can believe that y can equal 2 or 3, but I'll never believe y can equal 20. Nonono, that's just too far fetched, the window on my graphing calculator only goes up to 5 and down to -5, so we have no evidence that y=x will ever reach 20.  
 
We do have evidence, we can extrapolate.  We even have evidence to back up our extrapolations.
 
Furthermore we can observe "macroevolution" at a microscopic scale.  Viruses and bacteria can multiply much faster than any plants or animals we know.  This means that evolution happens much faster, and yes, we have observed speciation in microscopic organisms.  I can get you some links to this, but you could always google it yourself :)

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 21, 2013 at 1:23 pm

yes please send me some UNBIASED links and i would be obliged.(don't think that there's such thing as an unbiased science cite)
 
Shalom Alechiem!

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 21, 2013 at 2:28 pm

I could say the same thing about any kind of site.  Bias is inevitable.  What's important is the extent of that Bias on the work. 
 
Here's a site relatively unscathed by bias:
 
ht tp://evolution.berkeley.e du/evolibrary/article/evo_48
 
Also you have not responded to any of the other points I made in my post, and I really think you should take a look at the second paragraph, I'd like to know your opinion.  Not to be mean or rude, I just don't know how old you are so just in case I'm going to go ahead and say that if you haven't learned how to graph linear equations yet I can find another analogy.  
 
Thanks!

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 21, 2013 at 3:05 pm

i'm 16 and on algebra 2. think you for that wonderful compliment!

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 21, 2013 at 3:06 pm

and i did have a response but it got erased and haven't had time to reytpe it.

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 21, 2013 at 7:18 pm

Packerbacker:
 
I'm 16 and in Algebra 2 as well :D
 
And don't blame me, for all I know you could've been a really smart 12 year old :P
 
Also, if you've read the "Newies" thread you'll see a suggestion about copying your entire post before submitting it, that way you save it if it gets eaten by the filter.
 
If it just got erased by accident some other way, I would definitely recommend copying your post in the middle of writing it, periodically.  Especially if it's a really long post. 
 
Artgirl:
 
Weren't you commenting on my ability to argue my point earlier in this thread, I'd like your opinion now that you've so kindly inserted yourself into the discussion :P xD

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Breece6 replied...
Feb. 21, 2013 at 7:19 pm

P.S. Packerbacker:
 
You spelt "Thank" as "Think".  
 
AT LEAST YOU'RE IN ALGEBRA 2
 
:P

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 21, 2013 at 7:43 pm

lol i have too many things on my mind.
 
now i don't know if it was you or someone else that asked if the Bible has a proof against evolution. but i'll go ahead and answer that question.
 
Proof:  In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.


3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.


9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.


11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.


14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.


20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.


24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.


26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”


27 So God created mankind in his own image,


in the image of God he created them;


male and female he created them.


28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”


29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.


31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.


- genesis 1


 


note:CREATED


 


P.S. the newie thread came out after i posted that. and it got erased on accident when i pressed backspace and it went to the last page insead of deleting a word :) ty for the tip:)


 


Shalom Alechiem!
 

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