Out of Curiosity, Does Anyone Else on Here Believe in Predestination?
collin: i'm a boy:)
I thought this was a debate for or against predestination. That's not really what you're arguing.... Of course not everybody goes to heaven. What I'm saying is that's not God's fault. And I didn't include parts of the text because I knew you'd go look them up and because some of the parts were irrelevant to the discussion. And also because I'm lazy and typing on the iPad takes forever. :)
RarelyJaded: copy+c then copy+v not that hard:)
i'm talking about predestination about us being chosen before the foundation of the earth. he is all knowing is he not. so he already know the begging and end because he has no time frame:)
Lol. I did try I swear. Technology is not my forte. Anyways, yes he is all-knowing and so therefore he knows who will end up where after death. But predestination says that God chooses that result. These two things are different. You can know that something will happen but not be in control of it, and you can know something will happen and not be the cause of it. Right?
so your saying he has no control over what he CREATED. that's like saying you build some legos and you have no choice whether or not to break it.(sorry to come off heated).
I didn't mean that. He gave us free will, he CHOOSES NOT TO CHOOSE. If he wanted to he could throw all of us in he.ll but that would be stupid. And you're welcome to be as heated as you want, I can take it:)
that's funny. that's like saying i choose not to choose whether or not my legos will be destroyed. Really?
Why is it funny? That's a little disrespectful. How would you prefer it? Damnation shoved down your throat? Or grace, even? Free will is a gift.
Ugh I posted a reply but apparently it wasn't acceptable... Anyway, this is what I said in a nutshell: I am willing to discuss beliefs with you but only if you will be respectful, as I respect you. How would you prefer it? Da-mn.ation (okay I believe this word was the problem) sho.ved down your throat? Or even grace? Free will is a gift.
Hey i respect your beliefs. but when someone tells me i can be as heated as i want, i tend to say exactly what's on my mind.
So i can calm down if you want.
Free will is a gift of man's word not G-d's to make you feel good about yourself.(just saying i'll back off if you want me to).
Okay, okay, I know what I said. You can say whatever you want, I meant that I will keep arguing with you regardless, but I'd appreciate it if it stayed civil. But whatev. If you say you're just being passionate then that's fine. To be honest, I didn't understand what you said about free will. Can you reword it differently before I refute it? Thanks:)
that man made it up basically. to make people fell good about themselves.
*feel sorry for the error:)
But isn't the idea of free will in the bible? Or do you not believe in every part of it? Some people don't.
i believe in the whole Bible and predestination. free will is not in the Bible that i can see:)
Then what's the point of the Ten Commandments? And converting non-believers? If what we do doesn't matter?
we spread the word to all people but we don't know who will listen. and those who listen where predestined and G-d put that spirit in them to listen. that's what i've been trying to say:)
Okay, that makes sense. But can you prove that with scripture?
this is the best i've got:) Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people
This is not a very good example. If you read the verses following this, it's clear that this is describing Jesus' appearance. When He talks about putting the law in their inward parts, it's describing that the law will no longer be enforced through self-religious efforts, but by the Spirit living in our hearts. The "people" that he talks about, are the people that will accept His love and grace and live their lives accordingly. This is actually more of an argument against predestination than for it.
A more relevant example would be in Exodus 9:12 which reads, "But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron."
That verse describes a situation in which God took control over his creation and actually hardened his heart. A lot of scholars debate over this scripture because in a lot of ways, it seems to contradict what God stands for. Doesn't God offer grace to everyone?
However, as you look deeper, the point of the entire feud between Moses and Pharaoh is that Pharaoh's heart was never in the right place. He consciously decided to reject everything that God stands for and his pattern of rejection is what caused his heart to be hardened.
So finally, I believe that God knows what will happen, but it's clear that as humans, we have a choice to charter our own path. From the very essence of sinning, we have the ability to choose whether we follow God or reject Him. There are times when God steps in, however, and that's why it's not purely just predestination or free-will.