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Out of Curiosity, Does Anyone Else on Here Believe in Predestination?

contemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 18, 2013 at 12:57 pm

packerbacker: Are you a calvinist? 

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 18, 2013 at 2:05 pm

Eceerb9: 29 But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul.
this doesn't say anything about free will. what it is saying is if you seek him you will find him. alright and if someone is seeking him they were predestined to be one of his children. when he chose who is saved and who isn't he put that desire in the people that he predestined to come to him. and you shouldn't go k.ill people right now because the creator said thall shall not murder. and you don't know who is predestined that's the great thing about the great comission we go out and spread the gospel and whoever rejects it probably wasn't predestined.
contemplator: no i'm not a calvinist. i take ephesians 1:1-6 literally.

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contemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 18, 2013 at 3:44 pm

Packerbacke: What makes you so confident the word 'us' in those verses are reffereing to christians, or more accurately, the saved? Why not the entire human race?

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 18, 2013 at 3:48 pm

escuse me did you just say only christians are saved i'm not a christian and who are you to judge?

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 18, 2013 at 8:00 pm

packerbacker:


I like you. You really intrigue me.
 
Anyways, I believe that contemplator was just questioning who exactly the pronoun "us" refers to in Ephesians.
He said nothing about only Christians going to heaven.
 
If you go to heaven depends on your personal relationship with God and desire for truth, not the particular religion you are affiliated with.
 
Also, God definitely knows who is going to heaven, but it is our own choice to whether or not we end up there.
Our life in this world and our struggle against sin is not for God's sake, but for Satan, his angels, and all the other inhabitants of the universe. Those who are saved will represent Christ's perfect character and prove that sin is destructive, but obedience to God brings eternall life and joy.
 
God bless. ♥

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Feb. 18, 2013 at 8:43 pm

I think we're misinterpreting what the word "Free Will" means.

Free will means that I choose whether to follow God or not.

If I choose to follow him, I go to heaven,

If I don't choose to follow him, I got to hell.

Now, packerbacker, do you disagree with that sentiment? I want to establish a firm understanding before I reply.

Thanks! <- This is just my personal little "signature" sort of like Half.note's "God Bless" or Destinee's "Cheers". Just wanted you to know, some people think I'm trying to insult them when I post it.

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Feb. 18, 2013 at 8:44 pm

 
I think we're misinterpreting what the word "Free Will" means.
 
Free will means that I choose whether to follow God or not.  
 
If I choose to follow him, I go to heaven,
 
If I don't choose to follow him, I got to h.ell.
 
Now, packerbacker, do you disagree with that sentiment?  I want to establish a firm understanding before I reply.
 
Thanks! <- This is just my personal little "signature" sort of like Half.note's "God Bless" or Destinee's "Cheers".  Just wanted you to know, some people think I'm trying to insult them when I post it.

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Feb. 18, 2013 at 8:45 pm

P.S.
 
I'm Eceerb9, for some reason it changed my name back to this.

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contemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 18, 2013 at 10:51 pm

Eceerb9 is breece? I should have seen that. Eceerb is Breece backwards >.< 
 
half.note, as usual, is right about me. I was only questioning the pronoun "us". You seem to interpit it as 'everyone who is and ever will be saved'. But it could just as easily be interprited as 'everyone who God wants to be saved'. If "us" meant the latter, then predestination would have no ground in this verse. 
 
In conclusion, Ephesians 1 can mean something other than predestination.

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 7:58 am

that's funny because it uses the word Predestined typical christian won't take the Bible literally if it doesn't mach their views.  but i guess that goes for every religion.

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contemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 12:24 pm

I wouldn't classify myself as a 'typical' christian. But that is a totally different matter. 
 
Predestined can me 'His will'. He willed us to be with Him forever. He willed the entire human race! Why would he condemn the world before the world sinned in the first place? 
God did have a plan. He planned the salvation of ALL men before the foundation of the world. But a bunch of men neglected God, and chose not to follow His will, therefore, His will was not followed. Did he will Adam and Eve to sin? Did he will Sodom and Gommorrah to r.ape and kill? I hope NOT!! Adam and Eve sinned under their own account. Sodom and Gommorrah were evil under their own account. 
 
Men chose to not follow the divine plan of God.

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 1:25 pm

it's quite interesting that you can't qoute scripture to support your answer although i can. give me evidence...

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CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 1:28 pm

It didn't originally say "Predestined." It said "Proorizo." Simply because this was the word translators used does not mean one can inject hundreds of years of significance into the word which it does not intrinsically hold. This is a facile argument.
 
I do have to admit that packerbacker does have other (better) evidence to support his/her claim. I don't think his/her beliefs make rational sense in light of scripture's teachings, but he/she could make an argument.
 
Take, for example, the verse in Exodus that says God Himself  "hardened Pharaoh's heart" so he wouldn't free the Hebrews and thus experience the plagues. This same language is repeated many times throughout the Prophetic books as well: the Prophets proclaim that God hardened the hearts of the Israelites and allowed them to become sinful.
 
I personally believe that this is a trait of the Hebrew language that English translations don't fully grasp. Perhaps, because J.ews recognized that God holds everything in being, the act of "God" hardening a man's heart is not as significant as we might assume. Besides, why would God send Prophets to scold the Israeilites for something that was not under their control. Makes the whole Babylonian Captivity thing a bit of a jerk move if that's the case. 

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CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 1:37 pm

packerbacker:
 
One can quote scripture to support anything. What truly matters is a belief's validity in light of what scripture teaches collectively. It takes more than 5 sentences and a few remarks to establish a theology.
 
 

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CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 1:45 pm

Looking at scripture verses without context and the rest of the Bible is what produces fools like Westboro Baptist Church and proponents of Black Liberation Theology.
 
Scripture is a wonderful revelation from God which is "useful for Correction," but the words themselves should not be the sole judge of our theology. Much of their teaching is implied. The book of Esther never directly says God's name, but does that mean that it does not have a very spiritual lesson to teach us?

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CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 1:57 pm

And regarding Deuteronomy 4:29, you cannot interpret all of scripture based on one set of verses in Ephesians. This verse, and others like it, clearly imply that one will find God if they search, and will not if they don't. Actively searching implies doing so of one's own volition; you cannot simply assume that, in fact, the searcher has nothing to do with his own actions. Then you have no reason to be arguing with me at the moment, for I am led to disagree by God Himself. He will change my mind when and if He desires, without regard for your (actually cogent, don't get me wrong, I think you're a sharp kid) arguments. 

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CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 1:59 pm

And just out of curiousity, if you're not a Christian, then what are you? You know an awful lot about scripture to not be a believer.

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RarelyJadedThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 2:17 pm

Packerbacker: you told me (I think it was me) to quote you a verse... How about a couple? 1Timothy 2:1-6 I urge then... That we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of truth. For there is one god and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is... Not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 2:20 pm

collin:you have a good argument although you haven'y disproved ephesians 1. and if you know anything about the book of esther. they were in captivity thus forced not to use the name of our heavenly father. i will not mention his name because we will have mixed views on that matter.
And i never said i wasn't a beleiver i said i wasn'y a religous J.ew and i'm not a Christian. check out my belief clarity thread to know more.:)
 
Shalom Alechiem!

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packerbacker12This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Feb. 19, 2013 at 2:39 pm

RarelyJaded: that was actually directed at contemplator but that's okay. i'll take you on.
 
 
first of all 2 Peter 3:9 either you altered it or the sight you went to altered it. and also that's not the whole verse you have to put in into context. here is the actual verse with verse 8 included.
 
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
 
 
yes he wants everyone too but he knows that not everyone can.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:1-6: I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
states the same thing basically. he wants all to be saved but he knows that not all can.and it is talking about how to worship the father.
 
 
hope that helps:)
 
 
Shalom Alechiem!
 
 

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