Teen Ink on Twitter
Yeah, yeah. A while back I had this thread where I wasn't sure whether I believed in predestination or not, and several of you guys tried to help. And you did! But then I watched this great video called "Amazing Grace", on the five points of Calvinism, and I now officially believe in predestination again. I think. =P I need to sit down and write a creed or something, that lays out what I believe right now. Ignore my indecisiveness, please.
Anyway, the point of this thread was to ask: I know a bunch of you DO NOT believe in predestination, but is there anyone who DOES?
Define predestination. I believe God has a plan for me. I do not believe God has already chosen who will go to heaven and who will go to hell.
It didn't post, Imagine. =\
Yeah, I realized I forgot to put a period in he.ll.
It depends on how you define 'predestination'. I do believe that God has a plan for me and my life. I do not believe that God has already chosen who will go to heaven and who will go to he.ll, and there is nothing we can do to change that.
This debate is splitting hairs, really. Predestination just removes the uncertainty and mystery that makes human salvation magical (In that anyone could convert at any given moment) and replaces it with content elitism.
Calvin was a magnificent man, but he took things half an inch too far.
While I don't believe in predestination, I do believe that God does know who'll eventually go to Heaven and who won't. It might seem contradictory, but I don't think that necessarily takes away our free will, either.
I believe that God KNOWS who will go to heaven (all-knowing), but he doesn't DECIDE who goes to heaven... At least he doesn't just dictate despite what we do,to change things. That's where our free will comes into play.
I believe that we'll probably never know for sure, and that worrying over things like that wont get us very far.
Just my two and a half cents.
I agree with ZephyrVon the most, thinking about this kind of thing doesn't get us very far.
However I think it is possible that God doesn't know, after all he willingly gave up control over our will in order to give us free will, it could be very well that in the act of doing so he also forfeited foreknowledge of said event.
I think the most intriguing moment in all of history and existance has to be the moment God decided to give us free will. The sheer immensity of that decision and the sheer act of creating a separate will besides His must be truly awe-inspiring.
Waaaiiit... Breece, are you saying you don't believe God knows the future? Do you still consider Him omnesicent?
I think it's possible he doesn't know what he will choose, after all he gave us the ability to choose, perhaps in doing that he also gave up the foreknowledge of said event.
I'm not saying it is, just that it's possible :)
So yeah, I guess I still kinda consider him omniscient, but just as he's omnipotent and still chooses to give us free will, I think it's possible he could be omniscient and choose to not foreknow our decisions.
Anyways, talking about this kinda thing makes my head hurt :P
Oh, and it's weird being on at the same time you are (or at least within a few minutes of each other) :P
God's omniscience doesn't detract from free will in any way. I don't think we have to propose that God can suspend His attrinutes (which I don't believe the Father can. What's the basis of reality if God is not changeless?).
I believe God has a plan for our lives, but also that we can frustrate that plan. God made Adam and Eve with the intent of having an untainted relationship with them, even though He knew it wouldn't happen. They just went with a back-up plan.
Well this is all speculation of course, but I'm not saying he's suspending his attributes or changing them. I'm saying that in the same manner he willingly gave up our will to be our own, he could also in a sense give up our future to be our own, and therefore not known to him.
I think He had a plan, but I can have a plan for when a tornado hits my house without ever knowing that the tornado will hit.
of course i believe in predestination!
and be carful make sure to test teachings with the Bible before they lure you into they're man made teachings such as free will
Free will doesn't exist?
If God loves his children, why would he sentence some of them to he.ll without any chance for redemption? Isn't God just?
well he is all knowing is he not?
God does the saving and knows who will make that decision, yes. But we undoubtedly have a say in the process, else we're not God's wonderful creations capable of becoming Saints of Monsters, but simply His puppets, with no intrinsic value whatsoever.
The bible says if it was possible, god would let everyone go to heaven. I don't understand the belief that god chooses who goes to heaven and who goes to he.ll. He gave us that choice, we abused it, and that's why some people go to he.ll. However, I think God KNOWS who goes where, cuz he's god and all, even if he doesn't choose to choose the result:) Lol, this is all my opinion, of course. Believing in predestination doesn't make you more or less of a Christian.
you sure that's not just your pastor saying that...QUOTE me a verse.
Collin did quote a verse. Deutoronomy 4:29.
"lure you into man made teachings such as free will"
Question if I might. Why does it matter if you're lured into anything? Why does it matter what you believe?
If God has already chosen who's going to heaven and who's going to hell, why does anything matter?
Tell me why I shouldn't go out and kill 80 people right now if I'm "Predestined" to go to Heaven or Hell?
Tell me why anything in the world even matters?
I don't believe in pre destination, because it makes nothing matter. At all.