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Religion (Opinions welcome and appreciated)

savetheplanet replied...
Jan. 12, 2013 at 11:48 pm

 
 
Destinee:
I may be in high school but I completely understand the lack of time ALL the time... So exhausting.
Collin:
I've never heard that before either... very strange.  Why is that ultra-liberal though?
Snow-White-Queen:
Back to the original question, I am Catholic.  I was raised Catholic but that's not why I'm Catholic.  It may have been when I was younger, but I grew older and became more involved I had to come up with my own answers as to why I believed in certain things and why it is important to me to be Catholic.
To me, Catholicism is beautiful.  Not that other religions aren't, I hold many others in high regard as well.  But the one thing about Catholicism that many other Christian sects don't have, is that it is united in one church around the globe.  Few Protestant churches can claim that, many are mainly local.  I love the priests that hold mass at my church, they're very connected with the people.  I don't really know how to describe it as any one particular thing but rather just the whole atmosphere of acceptance and community and permiating feeling of God's love.  I think it's really cool that we have saints although other Christians don't.  It makes it more real, that these are humans just like us that God has spoken through on top of the fact that Christ became human for us.  Eh...  I'm getting a little lost of where to start I love so many things about my religion.  I'm in the youth ministry leadership team at my church and stuff.  If you have any questions just ask me, but I'm not going to force it down your throat or anything.  I hate it when people do that to me.

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CollinF replied...
Jan. 13, 2013 at 12:10 am

savetheplanet:
 
Because it's characteristic of the liberal's mission to assault traditional views on spiritual topics without regard to facts. "Constantine created Christianity to subjugate his Empire." "Jesus is another mythical character adapted from Egypt's Horus."  "There's a guy in Congress saying r.ape is God's will."  
 
Half of the five-hundred-year-old women I go to church with have more academic sense than the fools we let educate us. 

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savetheplanet replied...
Jan. 13, 2013 at 2:50 pm

Collin:
 
Apologies to Snow-White-Queen for getting off-topic.  Okay, wow, that was blunt.  May I just say that I am liberal and my mission is not to assault traditional values with the knowledge of a nitwit?  You'r first two statements, I agree are complete bs.  The third however, although I am aware that it does not in any way represent the views of conservatives in general, did occur.  Honestly, you must deal with all the crazy extremists that I'm sure every group has, because that is so far fetched from what most liberals promote and believe.

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Jan. 13, 2013 at 6:00 pm

I think that's why he said 'ultra' liberal. Ultra-conservatives go around saying stupid things too.
 
(And if I remember correctly, the statement  wasn't that r.ape is God's will, but a baby accidentally being concei.ved is- even through r.ape. Which I still think is kind of stupid, but this entire tangent is really off-topic already. :)

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CollinF replied...
Jan. 13, 2013 at 7:30 pm

to Snow-White-Queen:
 
Yeah, I apologize too. We'll end this conversation if the original topic gets some more hits. 
 
to savetheplanet:
 
Maybe that was a bit blunt. My bad. I like to toss in a sucker-punch every now 'n then, since posting long, detailed replies gets old quick. Especially when you type as slow as I do. :/
 
And my critique isn't of you. It's of modern, American Liberalism as a mood. It's hard to pin down, but most of its tenants which I can don't really hold much substance. The whole basis is an assumption of progressivism, which just asserts that humanity has been slowly improving over time, so new theories and moral convictions are more likely to hold substance than those of the ancients. This is false, as history is primarily cyclical, though it's not really that either. It's unpredicatable: like a story. However, this assumption (which is the fuel behind the general Liberal scorn of authority) leads inevitably to arrogance. It's why people listen to brainless morons like Bill Maher scorn men like Thomas Aquinas and don't laugh in his face. This disestablishmentarian attitude towards past ways of thinking is one of the only things I hate about Protestantism, and once it's secularized it really doesn't hold anything of value. The "Conservative" stands on the shoulders of giants, while the Liberal simply believes he can fly. :)
 
So, in short, I don't think Liberal ideologues are stupid: I think their views make them pompous.
 
Liberalism is also dedicated to unrestrained individualism, which falls in with my former qualms, really.
 
Liberal dedication to aiding the poor is noble, I admit. Liberal proponents who are so for this reason have my respect, though they don't have my agreement. I think they aid the poor in entirely the wrong way.
 
I'm curious to know, do you identify with the term "Liberal" for any reason other than that you support h.omosexual marriage? I like you too much for you to be completely wrapped up in the term. :) 

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CollinF replied...
Jan. 13, 2013 at 7:34 pm

And whether or not the man expressed himself eloquently, he had a beautiful point.

Babies should not be labeled "rape babies" simply because that's how they were conceived, as God can bring good out of the worst of circumstances. The Liberal interpretation of his point is like saying Moses' point in the story of Jacob is that it's God's will that guys be thrown in ditches and sold into slavery by their jerkish older brothers. It's . . . well, shallow and dumb.

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CollinF replied...
Jan. 13, 2013 at 7:38 pm

 
And whether or not the man expressed himself eloquently, he had a beautiful point.
 
Babies conceived by r.ape are still babies, and we should not distinguish between them and babies conceived in a loving marriage. God can bring good out of the worst of circumstances. The Liberal interpretation of his statement is like saying Moses' point in the story of Joseph is that it's God's will that guys be thrown into holes then sold into slavery by their jerkish older brothers. It's . . . well, dishonest, shallow, and dumb.

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savetheplanet replied...
Jan. 14, 2013 at 2:09 am

Collin:
 
Haha, that's rather sweet of you Colin. :)
 
Hmm.  I identify with the term liberal for a variety of reasons.  I feel like stances on such issues as h.omose.xual marriage is just a surface glance of the whole point.  At it's very basic form, liberalism is the idea that change is neccessary for progress.  The responsibility then falls to you to distinguish what should be changed and what should be preserved.
 
Contrary to popular belief, liberals are not all atheists.  There happen to be some very outspoken liberal atheists out there that give rise to this idea.  But liberalism has just as many roots in faith as conservatism.  What you might see as secularization I see as giving people freedom of choice.  We are given the gift of free will by God are we not?  So forcing religious values upon people who do not accept them not only defeats the purpose of democracy it defeats the purpose of religion.
 
So, unrestrained individualism I think is a good thing as long as there are some resaonable boundaries that prevent harm to oneself or others.
 
But mainly why I identify as a liberal is the underlying idea that the lowest of us should not be forgotten and that the good of the people comes first.  I guess in that sense I am not a true capitalist.  I think pure capitalism allows for too much unrestrained greed.
 
Hence, I am a liberal if that makes any sense.  I'm writing this a bit late at night I apologize if it's not entirely coherent.  Honestly the only thing that can truly describe why I'm liberal is what my father always tells me, I always stand up for the little guy.  My various liberal views include gun control (not gun abolishment like conservatives like to say we support), education, pro-g.ay (you already knew that), pro-welfare, pro-environmentalism, and I honestly have not decided my opinion on a.bor.tion.  On that I am very conflicted.  So yeah, ask questions Collin feel free. :D

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Breece6This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jan. 15, 2013 at 6:55 am

I think I'm kind of a liberal Christian at this point too.  Sorry Collin :P
 
I don't have the same reasoning as Liz though, I don't feel that we necessarily need to constantly change to achieve progress, but I don't believe all of the old or current ideas are best either.  
 
I suppose my opinion is that we should determine whether to be "liberal" and change something or be "conservative" and keep it the way it is on a case-by-case basis.  
 
In that regard, I think some of the main reasons I'd describe myself as a "liberal", is because at this point I think the majority of social norms and issues could use some change.  

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Crystal_Light replied...
Jan. 18, 2013 at 9:54 am

I call myself a "Whatever is out there is all right with me". This being said, I was christian and went to church every sunday since i was 5, but i don't really like the view points that my church has on things so, I stopped going. I don't neccasarily believe in god, or aliens or buddah or a giant spagetti monster, but I do think that something is out there somewhere. I'm happy with whatever it is, and I think that It will be interesting to find out what it is when I die. I do think that our soul carries on after our living bodies no longer are alive. We all could go on to become on collective Consciousness ( I sort of like the idea of that) or we can continue on to another form of being. I think that for the time being it's not that important, but I like to imagine something out there helps me along the path I chose in life.

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EPluribusUnumThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jan. 21, 2013 at 4:12 pm

I'm a little out there, and definitely very liberal (though I like to think I'm not on the crazy ignorant end, which both sides of the spectrum definitely have).

I am a Pagan because I do not believe in the Christian God. A single perfect male deity doesn't make sense to me because the world is so much more than that. It is full of divine dark and light and I don't see how a single god or goddess could capture all that. I do, however, believe in a divine spirit that is not only within us, but, in a sense, is us, and that we are all part of one greater whole. So in a sense we are all aspects of the divine. I also believe in many deities, and feel a calling to the Greek gods and goddesses in particular. I specifically work with Artemis a lot, since I have been fascinated by her since I was a little girl and I feel I have a lot to learn from her. One of the goddesses who has also been there for me when Catholicism wasn't is Nemesis, who is the goddess of justice. I love that she stands up for what she believes in, and though she can be harsh (let's face it, so are most deities), I believe she is just as likely to reward as she is to punish, as long as you deserve it. She encourages me to be a better person as much as Artemis encourages me to be tough!

I also pray to and work with the Wiccan God and Goddess, who are the divine feminine and masculine. This is because I am also a Wiccan. I love nature. The woods are my temple and I love the philosophical freedom solitary Wicca allows me. I have a shrine to the elements in my room and an altar on my desk with pictures of nature, dried flowers, acorns, arrowheads, pretty rocks, water, salt, an l.e.d. candle (I'm not allowed to have an actual candle in my room as my mom thinks I'll burn the house down), and other things that remind me of my religion and my spirituality. Sometimes I leave offerings there.

I tried to be a good Catholic when I was younger, but I had been raised to confuse good Catholic with good person. Now I feel free to be a kind and loving person as well as follow my own religion, even though it can lead to family awkwardness at times. I believe that no religion is completely wrong or right, but that we all have our own angle from which to view the whole.

Oh, and I believe in reincarnation, that we are atoms, that we will continue to be atoms, even as they change form. Perhaps our souls follow our atoms, perhaps they take new forms, I really don't know. Obviously, I am not dead. Heaven and Hell don't make any sense at all to me. Our lives are nothing compared to an eternity, so we must be missing some of the picture.

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EPluribusUnumThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jan. 21, 2013 at 4:18 pm

 
I'm a little out there, and definitely very liberal (though I like to think I'm not on the crazy igno.rant end, which both sides of the spectrum definitely have).
 
I am a Pagan because I do not believe in the Christian God. A single perfect male deity doesn't make sense to me because the world is so much more than that. It is full of divine dark and light and I don't see how a single god or goddess could capture all that. I do, however, believe in a divine spirit that is not only within us, but, in a sense, is us, and that we are all part of one greater whole. So in a sense we are all aspects of the divine. I also believe in many deities, and feel a calling to the Greek gods and goddesses in particular. I specifically work with Artemis a lot, since I have been fascinated by her since I was a little girl and I feel I have a lot to learn from her. One of the goddesses who has also been there for me when Catholicism wasn't is Nemesis, who is the goddess of justice. I love that she stands up for what she believes in, and though she can be harsh (let's face it, so are most deities), I believe she is just as likely to reward as she is to punish, as long as you deserve it. She encourages me to be a better person as much as Artemis encourages me to be tough!
 
I also pray to and work with the Wiccan God and Goddess, who are the divine feminine and masculine. This is because I am also a Wiccan. I love nature. The woods are my temple and I love the philosophical freedom solitary Wicca allows me. I have a shrine to the elements in my room and an altar on my desk with pictures of nature, dried flowers, acorns, arrowheads, pretty rocks, water, salt, an l.e.d. candle (I'm not allowed to have an actual candle in my room as my mom thinks I'll burn the house down), and other things that remind me of my religion and my spirituality. Sometimes I leave offerings there.
 
I tried to be a good Catholic when I was younger, but I had been raised to confuse good Catholic with good person. Now I feel free to be a kind and loving person as well as follow my own religion, even though it can lead to family awkwardness at times. I believe that no religion is completely wrong or right, but that we all have our own angle from which to view the whole.
 
Oh, and I believe in reincarnation, that we are atoms, that we will continue to be atoms, even as they change form. Perhaps our souls follow our atoms, perhaps they take new forms, I really don't know. Obviously, I am not dead. Heaven and He.ll don't make any sense at all to me. Our lives are nothing compared to an eternity, so we must be missing some of the picture.

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An-eloquent-leafThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jan. 23, 2013 at 5:41 pm

*pokes head in*
 
EPluribusUnum, just thought I might point out that the Christian God---although referred to as this the majority of the time---isn't necessarily male.He's more, well, above gender. The Greek Orthodox church emphasizes his female side, also known as Sophia.
 
*pokes head out*

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Breece6This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jan. 24, 2013 at 11:56 am

*Grabs Leafy's head*
 
I don't see an opinion from you here yet....
 
*glares menacingly*

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An-eloquent-leafThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jan. 24, 2013 at 7:18 pm

*squirms*

Okay, I guess I'll have my turn.

To put it simply, I'm Christian. Protestant, I suppose, to be more specific, but it doesn't get much more than that.

Before I go on, I might add my mom was raised Methodist (I think) and dad Greek Orthodox. There was a time where my family went to different churches to see where we wanted to go (my older sister was even baptized under the Greek Orthodox church), and it wasn't until I was seven or so that we settled down at a Presbyterian one. Partially because of this, I think, is why I don't associate myself with a specific sect.

I say Protestant, though, because I personally believe that the materialism and hierarchy (among other things) from Catholicism and Greek Orthodoxy often takes away/distracts from the meat of Christianity, if that makes sense. Also, there are too many parts to Mormonism (I consider that as a separate branch) that I don't think are true.

I'm not atheist or agnostic because I really do believe there is a god (and only one—which is why I don't practice a polytheistic religion), and that that god is, well, God. The Islamic-Judeo-Christian God, that is. And why am I not Jewish or Muslim? Well, I'm not quite sure if I can really explain it. They just don't "feel" right. Perhaps it's because I was raised Christian, perhaps it's not. There was, however, a period in my life where I didn't associate myself with a certain religion and looked around at others, but I eventually returned to Christianity.

What, exactly, do I believe in? I believe God created the entire universe, and his son Jesus was crucified for our sins—later to resurrect. I think it makes more sense for someone to be baptized, and said person to know why xi is (I choose to be baptized at around eight years, though even that may have a been a bit early, since my period of doubt was much later). I believe communion is important, as well as consubstantiation—the blood and body of Christ is not literally in the wine and bread. I believe that God knows who is going to Heaven and who won't, but I don't necessarily think that means one can't shape their own destiny.

I think separation of church and state is the best route to go—and that it should go both ways. That is, while I personally think LGBT people should have the right to marry, I'm not going to try to forces all other churches to agree and have it be legalized. Rather, I think governments should allow LGBT civil unions and all other necessary rights to make ga.y marriages equal, and that it is up to the church itself to decide whether or not it wants to conduct LGBT marriages. I believe God created humans, in part, to be stewards of this Earth—which is one of the reasons why I'm pro-environmentalism.

Um. That's all I can think of at the moment. G'day.

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CollinF replied...
Jan. 27, 2013 at 6:59 pm

Breece:
 
"It is the work of Liberals to go on making mistakes, and the work of Conservatives to refuse correcting the mistakes we have already made."
                     - G.K. Chesterton
 
 
I think any sane view has to be some kind of mixture of the two, but responsible Conservatism holds the high ground in that it resists excessive changes while embracing necessary ones. Unless we are cautious of what we abolish, we risk halting progress worse than when we take our time. A man moving forwards in a circle is not progressing at all. And a man going in the wrong direction reaches his destination sooner if he turns around instead of walking for walking's sake.
 
Also, it should be noted that we will never achieve the Ubermacht Nietzche talks about, or the Utopia dreamed of by Sir Saint Thomas Moore. Humans will be humans, and society will always be flawed in some way. Individual progress is the only progress which truly matters: the journey of a man's soul. And it is this kind of progress which Liberal idealism tends to place on the backburner, as it's rather old hat.
 
 
 

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CollinF replied...
Jan. 27, 2013 at 7:06 pm

And I didn't catch that first sentence you typed. My computer must've cut it out. :)

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CollinF replied...
Jan. 27, 2013 at 7:20 pm

EPluribusUnum:
 
You bring up a lot of good points in your post, so I'm just gonna focus on one for eficiency's sake. 
 
I'm not sure the Good/Evil relationship presented by Paganism is more complex than that of Christianity; although I do believe it's more frightening. Christianity does claim that the world is the creation of a single deity wih very singular attributes, but also that this deity allows rebellion because He is a ruler who desires His subjects to obey Him out of love rather than necessity. In this sense, evil is in constant revolt against the true nature of things. Because evil is merely a rebellion against an infinite being, it is destined to lose its struggle. Good will triumph, though evil  has a commanding presence in the universe. Experience seems to validate this view. We often get so frustrated with people's faults (as well as our own) and tragedies befall us over and over again, that we see no hope--totter on the brink of giving up. Then, a light pierces the darkness, showing that all we perceive as evil is just slime on the surface of the purest water that is our world--that is us. 
 
Paganism seems to lean toward viewing evil's struggle with good as a battle of equal footing. In fact, even the purest of beings (the gods) often succumb to evil. How are we to know the story of life won't end in the miserable tyranny of the divine protagonists of evil? In fact, how are we to know which side we should choose?

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Breece6This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jan. 28, 2013 at 2:19 pm

Collin:
 
"Responsible Conservatism", I rather like that term, I think that "Responsible Liberalism" could work just as well for what you're trying to say.
 
Basically, we shouldn't tie ourselves down to a preconceived standpoint but rather approach each problem individually (or on a case-by-case basis as I stated earlier) and move from there.  
 
I think we agree in that regard :)  
 
It's just on the specifics of the individual problems themselves we disagree :P

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Jan. 28, 2013 at 11:25 pm

I don't care what party a politician or pundit is as long as they're responsible.
 
Anyone seen a responsible poltician lately?

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