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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. posted this thread...
Dec. 17, 2012 at 8:03 pm

I'm not purposefully trying to be Ebenezer Scrooge here, but as Christmas is fast approaching I couldn't resist bringing this topic up.
 
So... Bah, humbug.
 
 
Let's consider for a moment what Jolly Old Saint Nick is all about:
 
He's a magical, mystical man who lives in the north pole and brings you presents if your good and a lump of coal if your bad. Parents all across the world lie to their children by telling them that he's real.
This just doesn't seem right.
 
In my opinion, Santa Claus replaces Jesus. But not in a good way. Instead, children are given a false idea about what "Jesus" is like.
They are given the idea that if they're good, they'll be rewarded. In other words, your good works are what get you into heaven.
And children write letters to him, which is pretty much the same thing as prayer.
 
This is all part of Satan's plan to lead the world away from God, but people just don't seem to see it!
 
 
Okay, don't get me wrong. I like Christmas. I really do.
The Music. Two weeks off school. Time with Family.
It's a season to remember how Jesus was born on this earth as a lowly babe, all so that we might be saved.
But Christmas has become so commercialized. All everyone thinks about is presents and the man in red who is going to bring them.
 
 
Anyways, this thread was mostly created so I could rant for a bit, but I imagine that some people will want to argue with me.
 
Go ahead. I welcome your opinions. :)
 
Merry Christmas!

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JunieSparrow replied...
Dec. 18, 2012 at 8:02 pm

h ttp://toolong.or g/pages/christmas.htm

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human6 replied...
Dec. 18, 2012 at 9:05 pm

If god was real it would be humanities job to destroy him. Just as we must destroy every petty tyrrant on earth. I see Christmas as a time to live in the joy of human brother hood, hedonistic pleasure, and good cheer. Its a time to give gifts, and recieve them, for the sheer joy of doing it. Its a time to drink deep of the egg nog and forget about the consequences. Its a time to forget about the bad grades, the morgage and all other problems, and live as we were already free.
 
Its a time to live in the words of George Orwell "as human beings, and not cogs in the capitalist machine."

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contemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Dec. 18, 2012 at 10:37 pm

human6: I don't follow the reasoning of your first statement: If god was real it would be humanities job to destroy him. Your second statement, which is supporting your first, makes absoolutely no sense: Just as we must destroy every petty tyrrant on earth
We must destroy every 'petty' tyrant on earth? God is not petty. The definition of God does not fall under petty. And God is not on earth. Most every religion that claims to have a god agrees with this idea. 
Lets assume God is real. What would our duty as humans be if he is real? In my opinion, God is our superior in every single way. I'm sure that you wouuld agree with me here in this 'hypothetical' situation. So, it would be utterly foolish to destroy God. I'm sure many people and creatures have already tried to kill him (Pharisees, Romans, Satan).
What other options are there for us if God is real? Well, it depends. If God made rules for us to follow, we must decide if it is worth the trouble to rebel against him. Ofcourse, there would be no gain rebel because he is the superior to the entire human race. To the entire earthly race! We would have to submit.
If you are thinking "humph! I would rather DIE than obey this invincible, eternal being", than I would beg you to reconsider. God, being God, would have dominion over death. It would only make sense if God is real.
 
I feel like I'm babbling. My point is that the most stupid thing we humans can do is try to kill God. If anything, we should thank him for not killing us all in an instant because of our great disrespect for him!!

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Breece6 replied...
Dec. 19, 2012 at 2:35 pm

I agree with you on this one Half.note, Santa is a commercialization, and a creepy one at that. 
 
Santa              
Omniscient (he knows when you've been good or bad...)
Magical
Immortal (or at least unnaturally long lived)
Rewards you for good works
Has people write letters to him (similar to prayer, as you mentioned)
 
 
He does seem a little bit too Godlike doesn't he?
 
I agree, Santa might be a cute tradition, but he's too overwhelming and too much like God.   

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human6 replied...
Dec. 20, 2012 at 1:03 pm

If god is as the bible describes him he is violent, and angry. He destroyed 2 cities for being ga.y. He killed inocent children, when he could have killed the slave masters instead. He aided the Isrealites to commit genocide in canan. I can't hold him to a divine standard, only a human one, and he fails on that standard.


If god is real and I am taken before him when I die I will curse him. The bible says that every person deserves hell for being born. If that is true than f.uck god, and his morality.

Christianity has a profound hatred of the world. Its totalitarian dotrine says that pleasure is sin, deserving of hell. It denies us the full ranged of life, and kills our spirits. I will fight such a belief to my dieing day.

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human6 replied...
Dec. 20, 2012 at 1:04 pm

 
If god is as the bible describes him he is violent, and angry. He destroyed 2 cities for being ga.y. He killed inocent children, when he could have killed the sla.ve masters instead. He aided the Isrealites to commit geno.cide in canan. I can't hold him to a divine standard, only a human one, and he fails on that standard. 
 
 
If god is real and I am taken before him when I die I will curse him. The bible says that every person deserves h.ell for being born. If that is true than f.uc.k god, and his morality. 
 
Christianity has a profound hatred of the world. Its totalitarian dotrine says that pleasure is s.in, deserving of he.ll. It denies us the full ranged of life, and kills our spirits. I will fight such a belief to my dieing day.

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Breece6 replied...
Dec. 20, 2012 at 2:28 pm

Human:
 
I don't believe everything the Bible says, so I don't see that as a problem personally.  
 
I just think if the parts about Jesus and Christmas are real, then Santa taking so much attention away and forcing parents to lie to their children just isn't right.  Also the commercialization, it's just nasty.  I hate how people in stores get violent around Christmas season, oh well.

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Dec. 20, 2012 at 10:50 pm

human... the questions was about Santa Claus. Not about the validity of Christianity as a belief system.

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human6 replied...
Dec. 21, 2012 at 7:44 am

Imagine: I should't post when drunk, but its a catch 22 because im drunk so i cant tell whats a good idea.

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TaylerNoelle replied...
Dec. 21, 2012 at 2:04 pm

Santa IS creepy, I'll give you that! and kind of God-like. But isn't it easier to believe in something that rewards you with something tangible? Like Santa, instead of GOD? Now, I personally wish we didn't have Santa, because I don't see the benefit other than for greeting card companies, but hey. He inspires people to do good things in a lot of cases....So, yeah. Santa's about joy. What could possibly be wrong with joy?

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Dec. 21, 2012 at 7:19 pm

It's just a fun tradition, nothing sinister. Is the Tooth Fairy also equivalent to Satan? What about the Easter Bunny? I agree that Christmas is becomign way too commercialized, but the problem isn't a myth of a man in red. It's society's focus on materialism.
 
I'll also agree that Santa bears some resemblance to Christ, but that isn't unusual. Christianity is so deeply ingrained in Western culture that religious motifs show up again and again and again. The oft-repeated 'Golden Rule' (you probably learned it in kindergarten- treat others how you want to be treated) comes from the Bible. The pose of the Mona Lisa is very similar to popular images of the Madonna (Virgin Mary) during that time period. 'Christ figures' (characters that purposely or accidentally reflect Christ) are so common in literature that analysts and professors study them in their own catagory.
 
They even appear on TV- I had an interesting realization after a lesson on this in English. Ever watched Doctor Who? (Breece, I know you have.) The ability to go anywhere, do anything, know everything- check. Good with children, many followers, universally loved (or hated, depending on whether you're a hero or villain)- check. Kind, generous, good, gentle, loving, merciful- check. Specific set of rules that must be obeyed? Willingness to sacrifice himself for the greater good (or even for the salvation of a single person, like Wilfred)? Regeneration (resurrection)- the ability to come back to life after having died? It suddenly hit me that THE DOCTOR IS A CHRIST FIGURE. Considering the views of some of the show's writers (if I remember correctly, Russel T. Davies is an avowed atheist), I doubt they did that on purpose. But those traits are so deeply engrained in our literature and culture they appeared anyway. I think it's the same with Santa- the qualities of God are such a huge part of our collective consciousness they are bound to crop up at one point or another. That doesn't make the thing they crop up in inherently evil.

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human6 replied...
Dec. 21, 2012 at 11:03 pm

Our modern image of santa was invented by coke. He's just an anthropamorphic coke can.

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Elizabeth-of-rohan replied...
Dec. 22, 2012 at 2:38 am

Reading this makes me want to laugh...no offence to anyone.

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Dec. 22, 2012 at 7:16 pm

Our image of Santa Claus was invented by Clement Clarke Moore and Thomas Nast. The Coke ads came later.

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half.noteThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Dec. 23, 2012 at 3:15 pm

Hey, everyone!
 
Some very interesting discussion going on here. I had some replies typed out to human, Breece, and a few others but they're saved on a different computer. I may post them some other time, but for now I just wanted to discuss what Imagine mentioned.
 
Imagine, you said that even characters like the Doctor from Doctor Who are Christ-like.
 
In my opinion, that's the whole evil of it.
 
Sure, the Doctor may be the "good" guy, but if athiests are using Christ as a template (whether purposefully or not) that means they'll probably be showing an incorrect version of Jesus. It will be a human idea of what he's like, or even how Satan himself views Jesus.
 
If you have the time, I highly recommend you watch the documentary, The Replacement Gods.
 
Here's the link to the full movie on YouTube:
h ttp://w ww.youtube.c om/watch?v=iFa-l8BvmqE
 
This documentary basically goes through how so many TV characters (especially superheroes) are false versions of Jesus. In people's minds, they connect the characters to being like Jesus, but they're actually getting wrong ideas of what he's like.
 
I like to use the example of the movie, The Avengers.
I saw it in theatres with my mom and sister and I was absolutely horrified by how Satanic it was.
 
I don't know if you've ever seen it, but everyone that has always says that Thor represents Jesus and Loki represents Satan.
This couldn't be farther from the truth.
In reality, Thor represents Satan and Loki represents Jesus. Well, how Satan views it, anyway.
Remember, Satan wants to be God. He loves nothing more than for the masses to see a character and think, "Oh, it's Jesus!" when really it represents Satan.
 
If you have seen this movie, just take a moment to reflect on it. Thor was thrown out of "heaven", or whatever you want to call it, by his father and sent to Earth.
Remind you of someone? *cough* Lucifer *cough*
 
What was most surprising was not with Thor, but Loki. In one part of the movie, he "brainwashes" a whole group of people and explains to them that he is controlling them so that they can be happy.
This is exactly what Satan thinks Jesus is doing to us!
Also, Loki opens a portal that allows alien invaders to come through.
In my mind, this seems similar to Jesus' second coming. Angels will come under the command of Jesus to take the righteous to heaven and destroy the wicked.
But Thor and the other Avengers are able to stop it, which Satan wants nothing more to do.
 
Really, the whole movie is a twisted version of what Satan and Jesus are like. It was actually rather eye-opening, because I saw exactly how Satan views Jesus.
 
And it's not limited to just this one movie. Hundreds of TV shows and movies share this mixed up view.
Even cultural figures like Santa also give us a false idea of who Jesus is.
 
We must know the Jesus of the Bible so we can spot these false representations. Satan is preparing us for the day when he will come in the place of Jesus in an attempt to decieve us. If all we've done is watched these movies where Satan puts himself in the place of the Saviour, we will believe it and be lost.
 
This is far more serious than just a "fun, harmless tradition".
This is life and death.

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TheKingThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Dec. 23, 2012 at 9:21 pm

Christmas lost its christian meanings a LONG time ago.

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contemplatorThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Dec. 24, 2012 at 12:14 pm

The majority has lost the meaning of christmas. But the few who know will celebrate the birth of the saviour. The meaning has not been lost, just hidden behind those who've forgotten.

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Dec. 24, 2012 at 6:52 pm

half.note:
Following your logic, Barney the Friendly Dinosaur is Satanic.

First of all, you're assuming that all fictional characters and cultural icons are purposely based off of religious themes or meant to represent something religious. Barney is a 'good guy'. Therefore he must represent God.
That just isn't the case- sometimes a fictional character is just a fictional character. Most of the time, in fact. I think it's stretching it to claim that Loki (or even Thor) represents Jesus; he's a comic book character based on ancient mythology. The Vikings came up with Thor and Loki before they'd ever even heard of Christ. (In fact, The Avengers explicitely says that neither Thor or Loki are God, albeit a little flippantly. "There's only one God, ma'am, and I'm pretty sure He doesn't dress like that.")

Secondly, you assume that any representation that isn't perfectly faithful to what you believe must therefore be Satanic. Which means that just about everything except the Bible is ruled out, because no work of fiction can be perfectly true. That's the definition of fiction. I mean, you can even look at the Chronicles of Narnia. Since when does God have a mane, four paws, and a tail? (Never mind the problem of most of the rest of the world believing differently than you, thereby also classifying all stories and teachings from different religions as Satanic. I haven't even touched the topic of 'faith vs. works' you complained about in the beginning.)
Also, this second statement is pretty heavily based on the first one- assuming all icons and characters are religious symbols. If Barney really is a representation of God, it's inaccurate because God isn't a creepy stuffed dinosaur.

Thirdly, you assume that people in general are incapable of discerning fact from fiction. Any mentally sound person can tell you that the Doctor, Thor, and Barney aren't real. I did not come away from The Avengers convinced that Asgard is an actual place or that Loki is a real, living god who should be worshipped. My worldview and beliefs about the universe were profoundly... unchanged.
But if somebody couldn't figure out that it's a story instead of real life, I could see the problem. Barney's on TV, therefore he must exist.

Finally, you assume that everyone will then act upon these assumptions. Barney is a very inaccurate representation of God that people will believe is real. Therefore, it's Satanic because it encourages people to worship stuffed dinosaurs.


...No, I don't think so. I have to admit, I didn't see any religious parallels in The Avengers at all until I read your post. Of course Thor or Loki aren't accurate representations of Jesus- they was never meant to represent Jesus in the first place! And with the flying aircraft carrier, creepy aliens, giant green monster, infinite energy source, 70-year-old supersoldier, and half-robot billionare, I'd be pretty shocked if any right-minded person decided to adopt The Avengers as a model for their cosmic worldview. Even if I do notice religious themes (which not everyone does and which may not even exist) I can watch movies, see TV, and read books while managing to keep fact and fiction straight in my head. I may be a huge fan of Doctor Who, but I do not pray to the Doctor. I don't even pray to a God who I think is similar to the Doctor. I pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who sent His Son to die for us and rise again- the God of the Bible.

If religious themes do happen to show up in a cultural icon or story, either they were accidental or on purpose. If they were on purpose you'll be able to see them pretty clearly- Christian authors (or, as I'll admit is occasionally the case, the rare authors actually trying to promote Satanism) tend to be really blunt. CS Lewis practically beats the reader over the head with his symbolism. Most everything else is an accident or unconscious mimicry, since Christianity so deeply permeates our culture (the argument of my last post).

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Dec. 24, 2012 at 6:54 pm

half.note:
Following your logic, Barney the Friendly Dinosaur is Sa.tanic.
 
First of all, you're assuming that all fictional characters and cultural icons are purposely based off of religious themes or meant to represent something religious. Barney is a 'good guy'. Therefore he must represent God.
That just isn't the case- sometimes a fictional character is just a fictional character. Most of the time, in fact. I think it's stretching it to claim that Loki (or even Thor) represents Jesus; he's a comic book character based on ancient mythology. The Vikings came up with Thor and Loki before they'd ever even heard of Christ. (In fact, The Avengers e.xplicitly says that neither Thor or Loki are God, albeit a little flippantly. "There's only one God, ma'am, and I'm pretty sure He doesn't dress like that.")
 
Secondly, you assume that any representation that isn't perfectly faithful to what you believe must therefore be Sa.tanic. Which means that just about everything except the Bible is ruled out, because no work of fiction can be perfectly true. That's the definition of fiction. I mean, you can even look at the Chronicles of Narnia. Since when does God have a mane, four paws, and a tail? (Never mind the problem of most of the rest of the world believing differently than you, thereby also classifying all stories and teachings from different religions as S.atanic. I haven't even touched the topic of 'faith vs. works' you complained about in the beginning.)
Also, this second statement is pretty heavily based on the first one- assuming all icons and characters are religious symbols. If Barney really is a representation of God, it's inaccurate because God isn't a creepy stuffed dinosaur.
 
Thirdly, you assume that people in general are incapable of discerning fact from fiction. Any mentally sound person can tell you that the Doctor, Thor, and Barney aren't real. I did not come away from The Avengers convinced that Asgard is an actual place or that Loki is a real, living god who should be worshipped. My worldview and beliefs about the universe were profoundly... unchanged.
But if somebody couldn't figure out that it's a story instead of real life, I could see the problem. Barney's on TV, therefore he must exist.
 
Finally, you assume that everyone will then act upon these assumptions. Barney is a very inaccurate representation of God that people will believe is real. Therefore, it's Sa.tanic because it encourages people to worship stuffed dinosaurs.
 
 
...No, I don't think so. I have to admit, I didn't see any religious parallels in The Avengers at all until I read your post. Of course Thor or Loki aren't accurate representations of Jesus- they was never meant to represent Jesus in the first place! And with the flying aircraft carrier, creepy aliens, giant green monster, infinite energy source, 70-year-old supersoldier, and half-robot billionare, I'd be pretty shocked if any right-minded person decided to adopt The Avengers as a model for their cosmic worldview. Even if I do notice religious themes (which not everyone does and which may not even exist) I can watch movies, see TV, and read books while managing to keep fact and fiction straight in my head. I may be a huge fan of Doctor Who, but I do not pray to the Doctor. I don't even pray to a God who I think is similar to the Doctor. I pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who sent His Son to die for us and rise again- the God of the Bible. 
 
If religious themes do happen to show up in a cultural icon or story, either they were accidental or on purpose. If they were on purpose you'll be able to see them pretty clearly- Christian authors (or, as I'll admit is occasionally the case, the rare authors actually trying to promote Sa.tanism) tend to be really blunt. CS Lewis practically beats the reader over the head with his symbolism. Most everything else is an accident or unconscious mimicry, since Christianity so deeply permeates our culture (the argument of my last post).

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