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Jul. 10, 2013 at 9:26 pm

Oh christ, SORRY for making a typo, I was just distracted by the ridiculousness coming out of your mouth. Hmm, if I wanted to be a sardonic and argumentative jerk, I would ask for your help, but I'm content as I am, think I'm good, thanks. You got ba.lls calling other people ignorant.

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Osvaldo_CThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 11, 2013 at 6:57 pm

Wow, interesting turn of events here.  :D
 
Yes, Americans have killed billions of people. The Native Americans are a major example. African Americans suffered cruelty and death while enslaved. Americans killed in WW1 and WW2 are a bit justified since it was self-defense. But some went too far. In the Middle East today, many die from drone attacks and innocent lives are also killed.
 
So yes, America has killed a lot.
 
Back to the topic, Edward might go to Venezuela. He said that he has more secrets to leak about America. Yet, he also said that it is not to aid "terrorists" or any other country. I agree with what many of you say. What he did is wrong. But the right thing to do isn't always the legal thing to do either.

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 11, 2013 at 7:56 pm

Ok. Not to be rude, but there is a huge difference between a million and a billion. Here is my USA government kill count (although to be honest I don't see why human6 thinks it is what makes the US an awful country. The US government has probably killed the fewest number of its own citizens of almost any country ever. Also the native american genocide had little to do with the political setup of the US):
 
Anyway:
 
Native Americans killed by US government (high estimate): 1 million
 
Total number of deaths on all sides from all causes (including disease) during wars America has participated in  (This is a huge (I'd guess ten to fifteen times what it should be) overestimate of US responsibility, but I want to make my point clear): 82 million
 
Number of death penalties: 1200
 
I can't think of any other categories, but if you can let me know. The total is about 83million, but if we're being at all realistic (sense probably 30-40 million of the war deaths really come from Stalin and Hitler during WW2 alone) I'd say its closer to 8 or 9 million. That's not anywhere close to a billion.
 
Anyway, I'll not derail the thread any further as human and I have already discussed our political opinion several times in other places.

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human6 replied...
Jul. 11, 2013 at 10:31 pm

2nd civil war (labor wars): 
 
battle of Blair mountain: 100 source wikipedia
 
Colorado labor wars: 1-2 thousand source wikipedia
 
great railroad strike: 214
 
Ludlow massacre: 69 
 
Homestead battle: 11
then we have american imperialism, to many coups, wars and terrorist campaigns to count so I'm just going to take the most agregious:
 
the war for Iraqi oil:  174,000 (civilians and combat) source Iraq body count (03-13)
 
 
9/11/73:  3,000 the red pheonix rembering Chiles 9/11
 
War for Vietnemese Rubber:  1524613 (civilian, military on north south and US sides) source wikipedia Vietnam war casualties
 
War for Afgan Minerals and Oil: civilian casualties as of Wednesday, 11 August 2010 13:01 3,268 civilian casualties in Iraq beyond the body count (truth-out)

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stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 12, 2013 at 1:03 am

I do not believe that multiple billions of people were killed in the native American genocide. That's purely and utterly ridiculous. You'll have to provide a good source on that one, considering that there were barely a billion people alive on the face of the planet at the time.
 
The problem it seems, is with a complete lack of perspective. It seems some people on this thread simply don't even begin to understand how many people 2,000,000,000+ people actually is.
 
Human: I'll add all of the numbers you just gave (many of which are, in their own vein, gross overestimates) to Quantum's overestimate running total.
 
83000000 + 100 + 2000 + 214 + 69 + 11 + 174000 + 3000 + 1524613 + 3267 = 84707274
 
I hope you realize that 84.7 million is nowhere even remotely near 2000+ millions.

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human6 replied...
Jul. 12, 2013 at 1:08 am

those acts are meant to stand in for a thousand like atrocities, all averaging simliar death tolls committed every day for 250 years (since the founding of America as a repulblic of slaveholders and there investors to its current state of a bankers dictatorship)

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stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 12, 2013 at 2:14 am

No, they don't "stand for thousands of atrocities," they are discrete death counts. Get some perspective and get with the picture, Human.

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human6 replied...
Jul. 12, 2013 at 2:44 am

Listing every war assassination coup and genocide committed by/for/or the sanction of the American state isn't possible. The US sells weapons to dictators like Samoza dynasty making there murders on its heads. Times that by every tin pot lunatic we fund plus double it for the ones in regions where our "esteemed ally's" clan has a grudge against everyone else in the region because of some stuff from 2000 years ago and you get a couple billion. Not counting when they do it themselves.

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Gryffindor replied...
Jul. 12, 2013 at 3:26 am

human: I hope you realise that Hitler killed around the 11 million marker. To claim that the US killed Billions.........remember there are close to 8 BILLION people on this planent. We did not kill nor have nearly 2 B Native Americans from the time we settled America till now. 
 
Million-1,000,000
Billion-1,000,000,000
Trillion-1,000,000,000,000
 
and so on.
 
 
 
Quantum: Part of me wants to know what he still has to leak, the other part I don't want to know. Also unless he copied the documents he leaked, its hard to tell wether he is lying or not. He could be pulling it out of his #%^#$^. Anyways, I'm just curious to how this will play out..........

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stuntddudeThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 12, 2013 at 4:44 am

Human: Sorry, but I'm gonna actually have to see your math on this one. You've shown that you can't even muster 100 million so far, let alone 20 times that.

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 12, 2013 at 10:25 am

Gryffindor: Yeah. It should be interesting.

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Gryffindor replied...
Jul. 12, 2013 at 12:10 pm

human: The government doesn't itself sell the weapons to other countries. You forget that the companies who make the said weapons don't just have contracts with the U.S. government. Either way, the seller doesn't have anything to do with the killing. The killing happens wether they get their weapons or not. If the U.S. doesn't sell them, then they will either steal them, or go through the black market. That simple.
 
 
 
Bottom line, the U.S. has no hand in how the weapons are used.  No responsibility once it passes into their hands. Yes we did give them the weapons, but we didn't fire them.

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Imaginedangerous replied...
Jul. 12, 2013 at 6:17 pm

Wow, it's a pretty impressive feat to have killed 'billions' of Native Americans... given that the entire planet Earth didn't have 'billions' of people until about 1927. I'm pretty sure that most of the Indian massacres were over by then.
 
 
Saying that 84 million is close to 2 billion is like saying that 84 is close to 2,000, or that 8 and a half is close to 200. Moral of the story: Don't exaggerate for effect.
(Or, alternately, learn math.)

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human6 replied...
Jul. 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm

Gryf: I meant that the US army and intelligence services kept many murderous and deadly regimes in power. Look at the cold war Latin American dictators. Or more recently the African regimes we prop up. American and the west in general are imperial powers, only instead of out right conquest we just prop up local powers whose interests we share. 

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Quantum1.0This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Jul. 13, 2013 at 7:48 pm

" we just prop up local powers whose interests we share."
 
Welll...yeah. That's called being a smart government.

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human6 replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 12:27 am

It's also called imperialism. Capitalism hits crisis in the national market so we force weaker poorer nations to accept our goods and make our products. It's the reason we have a middle class.

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Gryffindor replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 2:47 am

I hope you don't mean China, when you say weaker and poorer countries to make our goods.

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human6 replied...
Jul. 14, 2013 at 7:45 am

Nope Guatemala, Indonesia, Chile, ETC with the help of local collaborators. It's an empire

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