Facebook Activity



Teen Ink on Twitter

Home > Forums > Teen Ink Forums > News & Issues > G a y Boy Scouts

Teen Ink Forums

Lively discussions with other teens
   
Imaginedangerous posted this thread...
Apr. 25, 2013 at 9:03 pm

The BSA is considering allowing g a y scouts and leaders. On one hand, the vast majority of scout troops are religiously sponsored, funded, or otherwise run through/with a church. On the other, some states are considering ending their tax-exempt status unless they end the ban. Thoughts? Opinions?

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Gryffindor replied...
Apr. 25, 2013 at 9:39 pm

Before anyone else comments, I am an Eagle Scout. I do not believe in this thing of not allowing ga.y scouts or leaders. I know some of my friends who have given their Eagle award back because of this stupidity. Until fixed. This is not a belief shared by all scouts and leaders. Just a select few who happen to run BSA. 

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 25, 2013 at 10:40 pm

I don't understand why this is a problem. Is it the leaders that bothers people, because they'll be in a position of power? Because they'll have influence? It's still ridiculous in my opinion, but that's the best angle I can see anyone coming from.
 
I want to know why this ban exists, so I can argue against it.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 25, 2013 at 10:42 pm

I can also understand why churches who fund the groups would agree with the ban. I still disagree with them, but there's not a lot that can be done about that.
 
Oh, and as for the ultimatum --> I don't know. I'm not really hugely knowledgable on political ideas/movements/how these things work.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
Imaginedangerous replied...
Apr. 26, 2013 at 8:27 pm

The ban is not a belief shared by all scouts and leaders, but neither is it only the desire of a select few. Many scouts participate (or are required to participate by thier parents) becuase it's an organization closely tied with churches. Both viewpoints have lots of dedicated followers.
 
Personally, I'm fine with allowing g a y members on a national level. Quite honestly, whether you agree with their lifestyle choices or not (I don't), these keeds need a support group/community involvment/ friends. I'm not so crazy about g a y leaders. It's not that I'm against them having power, Jubilex, but... would you put a man in charge of a girl scout troop?

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 26, 2013 at 9:56 pm

I could understand the preference for having female leaders, but I wouldn't be strictly opposed to male ones. I get how it can make people on edge, having a man lead young girls, but based on all reason, it's not really that bad. Having eclusively male leaders could be a problem though, as there are things that girls feel more comfortable talking to other girls about, and having a female role model could be helpful for a lot of the girls. Quite simply, the girls themselves might be uncomfortable with solely male leaders, not just the parents, and that's a problem. I'd be fine with a mix though.
 
I was in Scouts as a kid. We were a mixed group though, so it's a little different. We had solely male leaders. I didn't care. I'm sure some people would, but not everyone. Hence why I think mixed leaders is appropriate.
 
I mean, male teachers can teach at all girls schools.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:08 pm

This isn't gonna be good for the Boy Scouts' reputation. :)
 
That being aside, I think effeminacy doesn't have any place in anything which specifically men do. It sounds a bit elitist, but it's just a guy thing. If I had to go on a fishing trip with a g.ay guy I'd be P.O.'d. Or if I had to play sports with one. 
 
I'm not sure whether that would apply to g.^ys that don't act like girls, but if you've got more than 3 pairs of shoes, you shouldn't be involved in guy business. Else count me out. Just ain't the same.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:34 pm

It would actually bother you to do "guy stuff" with a gay guy? I'm sorry, are gay guys not men? And even so, why does there have to have to be some sort of sexist attachment to "guy activities"?

You might not want to go on a fishing trip with a girl, but is there are problem with girls going on fishing trips with guys? No. Why is it any different for gay guys? I get that you might not enjoy it, but I don't think that's really a good enough reason to exclude gay people from community based activities. Your personal ones, sure, because that's your choice.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:35 pm

 
It would actually bother you to do "guy stuff" with a g.ay guy? I'm sorry, are g.ay guys not men? And even so, why does there have to have to be some sort of sexist attachment to "guy activities"?
 
You might not want to go on a fishing trip with a girl, but is there are problem with girls going on fishing trips with guys? No. Why is it any different for g.ay guys? I get that you might not enjoy it, but I don't think that's really a good enough reason to exclude g.ay people from community based activities. Your personal ones, sure, because that's your choice.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:53 pm

If your definition of a "man" is someone who can dehook and gut a fish without whining about how "icky" it is, then no. G.ay (effeminate) guys are not men.
 
I'd be willing to bet you're a girl, aren't you? It's not just my personal opinion. Masculine society has been exclusive since the dawn of time. It's cause women (and men who insist on annoyingly acting like them) just don't ever get the full experience of doing man stuff. It's just not the same and never can be.
 
Private Organizations designed to get boys doing masculine activities like camping, shooting, fishing, etc. has every right to be as exclusive as they want. Just like I wouldn't care one bit if I was banned from the Fashion Fanatics Club or something.   

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:56 pm

h ttp://ww w.youtube.c om/watch?v=6yQ9a-hJVy0

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 1, 2013 at 12:33 am

My definition of a man (in this case) is someone with a pen.is. I'm more open than that sentence on the whole trans concept, but for the purpose of this, I'll keep it simple.
 
I'm not suggesting that women are like men. There are some pretty obvious differences physiologically, and even mentally. But I do think your ideas on this are limited by personal preference.
 
You're one of the few people that actually assumes I'm a girl. You're correct, but I don't think it's as relevant as you think it is. All the Scout associations that I ever saw near me were mixed associations. But we still did what you would deem "manly" stuff. I enjoy campling, laser skirmish, paintball, tug of war, etc. Throughout most of my childhood the amount of male friends I had severely exceeded the amount of female friends. Why? Because we had similar interests.
 
I'm not suggesting that boy scout groups in the US allow female members, but why ban ga.y people? I think it's reasonable to assume that they would want to be involved in the activites of the scout group if they wanted to be a member.
 
Wait, full experience of doing man stuff? Okay, look, I'm going to try and stay away from this. Not because it frustrates me, but because it's off topic. We're not talking about women here, we're talking about g.ay people and scout groups.
 
You know not all ga.y men are effeminate, right? And there are plenty of effeminate straight men out there. You know, ga.y people are simply people. These men are men, no matter of se.xual orientation. I can't believe someone as educated as you would actually take this sort of stand.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 1, 2013 at 12:56 am

*Shrug* Perhaps it's because of education that I recognize that "full equality" of different groups of people is impossible. Or maybe it's just that I personally think that when someone says "a night with the guys" it's implied that there is no sexual attraction and everyone's doing primarily masculine activities.

I'm not sure you or Imagine will ever really grasp the concept. Not that you're dull. You just don't know what "spending time with the guys" is like. It's irrelevant that you're tomboyish, or even that you've got a nay-nay instead of a hoo-ha. There's more to it than that.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 1, 2013 at 12:57 am

 
*Shrug* Perhaps it's because of education that I recognize that "full equality" of different groups of people is impossible. Or maybe it's just that I personally think that when someone says "a night with the guys" it's implied that there is no s.exual attraction and everyone's doing primarily masculine activities.
 
I'm not sure you or Imagine will ever really grasp the concept. Not that you're dull. You just don't know what "spending time with the guys" is like. It's irrelevant that you're tomboyish, or even that you've got a nay-nay instead of a hoo-ha. There's more to it than that.  

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 1, 2013 at 1:29 am

Ah, now here's a huge misconception. That ga.y men can't help themselves, that they become attracted to all their male friends. I'm a straight girl, and I don't get attracted to all my male friends.
 
I understand what you would want (I'm not suggesting I fully grasp the experience). But I think you're limiting yourself by assuming that this is the case for every straight, masculine male that exists.  Not everyone gets all weirded out by being around ga.y people.
 
And not only that, but just because people get weirded out by ga.y men, doesn't mean that it's right to prohibit them from joining male only social groups, like scout organistations.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 1, 2013 at 2:03 am

*Sigh* That's not what I said. The assumption is that it's possible, when it would otherwise not be. Regardless of whether or not guys "like" a girl, there is always underlying s.exual tension (Surprise if ya didn't know :D) that doesn't exist when they're around other ("straight") guys. Makes it possible to truly relax for once.
 
And I think you'd be surprised. 99% of the guys I know would agree with me. And I don't get weirded out by being around g.ay people. I have a g.ay dude who cuts my hair who's excellent at his job and is funny as c.rap. However, when they group the guys together at P.E. to play foorball and I get a guy on my team who refuses to catch the ball out of fear he'll break a nail, it's frustrating, to say the least.
 
And I don't see why it shouldn't prevent them from joining groups revolving around traditional, masculine, male activities. I wouldn't be picketing for g.ay members of hunting lodges or for g.ay Freemasons either.
 
I'm not necessarily against it, I just think it would do most people good to see it the other side's view before claiming the moral high ground and crusading.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 1, 2013 at 2:07 am

I'm not attempting to descriminate: I don't have any problems with g.ays joining any group they wanna.
 
However, many people may very well feel that they need a place to go to where Liberalizing beauracrats don't force them to be "all-accepting" and for most men male-only clubs and organizations like this are that place. Why insist on taking that from them?

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 1, 2013 at 6:08 am

You'd think that mostly the more masculine guys would prefer those types of organisations. The one's who like rough-housing, fishing and camping. You wouldn't even know that they were ga.y unless they told you (or someone else and it got back to you). I don't see whay that knowledge changes things so much.
 
"Why insist on taking that from them?" You know this works in the reverse too, right? Why insist on taking away a ga.y male's right to join one of those clubs if they are interested in what it offers?  Them being ga.t doesn't affect their interest in that organisation. The either like the activities, or they don't. If they don't, they don't join, if the do, then I think it should be open for them.
 
Like I said before, they're people too. I don't think defining them by their se.xuality is a good way to go.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
JubilexThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
May 1, 2013 at 6:18 am

Also, I missed the first post of yours. I apologise for the misunderstandings.
 
I find it difficult to accept the position you're taking, because I don't take se.xuality into consideration when I interact with someone (apart from my boyfriend ;P). To me it's irrelevant to how I feel about them. They're a person, and se.xuality is only a facet of that person. It doesn't affect how well I get along with them. Nor do I assume that ga.y people act in certain ways, because I tend not to assume that of groups of people in any circumstance where possible. I don't think all Americans are idiots (despite what relaity tv tells you), nor that all boys are se.xually crazed. I just don't see how being g.ay is such a defining factor.
 
I'll try and accept your idea on how the other males feel though. Because that is an issue, and how they feel is also an important thing. I get how it could bother people, but I can't relate to that feeling. At all.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread
human6 replied...
May 1, 2013 at 1:29 pm

I was a boy scout for a while, but I left. It was for 2 reasons: I didn't like the people, and the horrible politics (infuesed with nationalism and conservative religion). I now do outdoors stuff with my family, and friends. I love camping and all the things boyscouts do.
 
 
 
Collin: You've just proven that hom ophobia has more to do with hatred of women than the bible.

Reply to this Thread Post a new Thread

Launch Teen Ink Chat
Site Feedback