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Gun Control vs. Gun Rights

Gryffindor replied...
Apr. 10, 2013 at 9:55 pm

Sorla, related to Boston Mass.
 
 
 
 
In Boston under a vague law it is unlawful to possess, display, transfer, or receive, without a license granted by the Boston Police Commissioner:


any shotgun with a revolving cylinder and/or a capacity exceeding 6 rounds;


a semiautomatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 10 rounds;


any SKS, AK47, UZI, AR-15, Steyr AUG, FN-FAL, and FN-FNC rifle;


any semiautomatic pistol which is a modification of a proscribed rifle or shotgun with a shorter barrel or no stock, and


any magazine or belt which holds more than 10 rounds.

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Gryffindor replied...
Apr. 10, 2013 at 10:01 pm

The sooner people can just accept that they honestly can't do anything to make people better, the world will be more peaceful.
 
 
 
 
I'm sorry, I know that is your opinion, but under mine, I can't believe that AT ALL. 

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Apr. 10, 2013 at 10:54 pm

Well, those laws just floored me. No wonder people don't register their guns, it's easier. As long as we're not hurting anybody, it really isn't anyone's business what weapons we own. It's always a personal flaw, I'll admit, but why do you think people carry weapons in the first place? We're just as afraid as everyone else, the difference, is that we would rather protect ourselves then trust anybody else to keep the peace for us. I plain don't feel safe unless I'm armed. I've been assaulted way to many times for my liking, so the way I see it, as long as I'm not hurting anyone, the law doesn't matter. That is my opinion on every law for that matter, as long as no one is hurting anybody else, why should we tell them what to do? Society is way too restricting, man. Humans are wily, unpredictable, intelligent beyond belief, narcissistic and egotistical. They are caring, resourceful, cunning, and I love them. I love every single one of you guys on default (unless they start it!). What I don't love is what happens when society tries to hold them down. 

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capsgirl74 replied...
Apr. 11, 2013 at 11:11 am

People are bad no matter what. If they want to hurt something or someone, they will find a way to do it with or without a gun. That is a fact of life. There is nothing we or the government can do that can change that, unfortunately. I understand that some people don't like guns. But it is not fair to impose your ideas and opinions on those who disagree. I know it's hard to grasp, but imagine this: You are pregnant and want an abortion. It is what you want. It is your body, your life. Then, the government comes in and tells you what you can or cannot do with your own body and life. I am sure that you would be very upset and feel very violated. That is how people who own guns feels. We are in the minority, meaning that the legal gun owners are outnumbered by those without guns. Then, there are people like you, who hate guns and want nothing to do with them, telling us what we should and should not do, or can and cannot do. Of course you agree with gun laws! YOU don't have to follow them. YOU are not going to be affected. It is a very unfair thing to do. And it sucks to be in this position. I am sorry that many of you are too sheltered to understand.

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Breece6This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 11, 2013 at 2:58 pm

Collin and Capsgirl:
 
Believe it or not, defending yourself is part of "surviving", hence "survival tools" :)
 
Sorla:
 
Y'know what the problem is, you are literally only thinking about yourself.
 
I quote: "Life would be just as easy without running water or electricity, just because I like it more than the city.  Electricity is unnecessary and who needs running water?
 
Not everyone wants to live like they were born in the 16th century.
 
Some people enjoy the progress we've made, some people enjoy traffic lights, some people enjoy having a government that streamlines the cooperation and organization of over 300 million people so that we don't have to spend every waking hour of our existence either hunting and gathering, settling tribal feuds, or if we're talking about the most likely thing that would happen, forming a government.
 
There's a reason governments exist, it's because the majority of people like them.
 
Yes, there are going to be people who don't like them.  But the greater majority like it.
 
This argument boils down to one thing: 
 
Should the good of the majority outweigh the good of the few.  
 
Yes.  In my opinion, yes, yes, and yes.  Not unnecessarily so, but when it has to be done, yes.  
 
Life sucks.  That's a fact, that's how ecosystems work, there's always going to be animals who die off.  
 
An anarchy would only cause more suffering for those who are already doomed to be beaten out by natural selection.  It wouldn't even make it faster, just more brutal. 
 
On Actual Gun Control:
 
Imagine's post sums it up perfectly.  
 
Anticipated response from Capsgirl, Sorla, etc.:
 
So we should have to give up our automatic weapons just so it's harder for crazy people to go on serial killing sprees?
 
YES.  Why yes.  Yes you should.
 
*sigh*
 
At the very least, you should be required to be registered and have a background check.  Any violent criminal behavior and you shouldn't be allowed.  Any gun law infractions and you shouldn't be allowed.  
 
If you've been diagnosed as criminally insane or with less IQ than a potatoe, you shouldn't be allowed.
 
One final note to Collin:
 
Maybe the reason there's so few assault rifle killings are because... wait for it...
 
Gun registation and restriction laws are working.  
 
Would you believe that? :)
 
 

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Breece6This teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 11, 2013 at 3:00 pm

Sorla and Caps:
 
I love you guys, don't get me wrong, I just disagree with you very strongly :)

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Apr. 11, 2013 at 4:29 pm

Breece: Ha, yes I can see that XD. I understand how some people feel safer with laws in place, but what they need to accept is that laws aren't always followed. They need to be prepared that although a government proposes safety, it ain't fool proof. I think it's wonderful that we have managed to network like this, really insanely intelligent stuff. Guns themselves are insanely intelligent inventions. There's nothing wrong with that, I just don't agree with all these laws put in place, and I'm sure millions of people agree with me. Why follow laws if you're not hurting anybody? Why can the government tell me what weapons I can and cannot own, and insist on keeping track of all of them? Why does the government have something to say when I grow cannabis in my own garden for my own personal use? Why does the government care if I hunt in the city limits? Why does the government insist on restricting my ammo and alcohol? They have no right to impose their beliefs on me as long as I'm not hurting anybody. Why is public nudity illegal? Everyone has a body, there's no shame in being human. Why do we need social security and prison systems? Why do we need their help at all? I guarantee, the weak will be protected, they always are, always have been. It's another natural response evolution gave us so we're better equipped to protect our children and keep our packs alive. Laws don't change anything, they just turn us into complacent zombies while the others (let's call them monsters) take advantage of everyone else. At least in an Anarchy, everyone has a chance, but this isn't about anarchy, this is about gun control. No one can prevent us from buying assault rifles, it's a fact. I'd say about .001 percent of people who own an assault rifle will shoot up a public place, probably less. The rest of us shouldn't have to be restricted thanks to the monsters. Wouldn't you rather have an assault rifle anyways, just so you have a chance against the crazies? 

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Gryffindor replied...
Apr. 12, 2013 at 4:46 pm

Why can the government tell me what weapons I can and cannot own, and insist on keeping track of all of them? Why does the government have something to say when I grow cannabis in my own garden for my own personal use? Why does the government care if I hunt in the city limits? Why does the government insist on restricting my ammo and alcohol? They have no right to impose their beliefs on me as long as I'm not hurting anybody. Why is public nudity illegal? Everyone has a body, there's no shame in being human. Why do we need social security and prison systems?
 
 
Because Sorla, in the United States, the majority has passed those laws. The governement of the people, by the people, and for the people. The governement however idiotic it is, is made up of the people. We pay THEIR salaries. We all have the ability to control the governement, I just don't see that many stepping up to the task. Because they are afraid or they guess the Government will smack them down. Just because it has happened so many times before. If enough people do it, the government will have no people to govern, or It will be very hard too. 

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Gryffindor replied...
Apr. 12, 2013 at 4:51 pm

Sorla, laws are in place, so others have boundaries on what they can and can't do. Otherwise the 8 robbers who rob your house because they know you have all the guns and are holding YOU at gunpoint. Who is gonna come, while you are there surrounded by 8 people, probably holding assualt rifles and your guns. By the time you try and call for help you will be shot and no one will think twice. If they do, then the robbers will be long gone.
 
(I don't know why I picked 8)
 
 
"The rest of us shouldn't have to be restricted thanks to the monsters."
 
All for one, and One for All. Taking one for the team. One gets in trouble the rest must suffer. I'd prefer to have a handgun against an assualt weapon with a promise that there will be authorities showing up with bigger and better guns. Besides, I hate collateral damage.

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Apr. 12, 2013 at 5:01 pm

I don't use the services of the police, the education system, or even medical care. I don't pay them anything, so the way I see it, as long as I'm not hurting anyone, I can do whatever I want. And on a side note, anyone who breaks into MY house has a death wish ;) I'm not saying that everyone should have assault rifles, I'm just saying that if a person wants one, they shouldn't be prevented from purchasing one. Originally, governments were tribe rulers who stole and pillaged and it was acceptable because they provided protection from other tribes. Kinda like the mafia. So with that in mind, when I'm told that I can't do something, just cause the government says so, there is no incentive to follow the laws. People like me, they don't get anything from the government, and barely have any rights to begin with. So why should we be punished for committing victimless crime when all we're really doing is trying to live to see another day, just like everyone else?

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Gryffindor replied...
Apr. 12, 2013 at 5:15 pm

LAst time I checked, they aren't preventing anyone from purchasing Assault rifles on a FEDERAL level. States have their own laws. On a federal level they are asking for smaller magazines, and extended beyond belief background checks. 
 
You don't get anything from the government? Water and Electricity? Interent? I know of some countries that regulate the internet you can use. I know for a fact and by common sense that without electricity you wouldn't be typing out these posts. The governemnt doesn't dictate where you MUST live. 
 
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,You don't pay the government anything. Please, wait till you are 18 and own your own home. Its called Tax. What about the services of the firefighters? Say your house starts to burn, I can totally see all of your neighbors getting off their as.ses, to come form a water line. (sarcasm). 
 
You have rights guaranteed by the U.S. constitution. You have rights as a human being born on this earth. No government has the right to take that from you, unless you become an immediate threat to those around you. On that note the PATRIOT Act pretty much scr.ews your rights. 

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Apr. 12, 2013 at 6:27 pm

Water and electricity come from private companies. And as much as communists would like to claim that their government regulates their internet, that's not true. You can't stop the signal. It has to go somewhere. Nothing is entirely secure. I'm not gonna pay taxes when I'm 18 either, because once more, I don't use any of their benefits. Why should I have to pay for something that I not only disagree with, but makes my life harder. I'd say that the chance of my own house bursting into flame is zero because I'm pretty responsible about cooking and electricity, if it burns down, it'll be because of the moron upstairs who smokes in bed. If I want to live off the grid, why does the government disagree with that? I'm not hurting anyone by owning unregistered guns and ignoring laws, just being myself. If they can't deal with that, I might as well move to Canada lol. And by the way, I don't have rights. I can't vote, I can't leave the country, I can't grow pot, I can't drink, There are public places where I'm not allowed, I technically can't own any guns or weapons, I can't drive, I can't hunt in my own backyard, I technically can't live on my own, etc... They have no right to tell me which rights I can and cannot have. It's all or nothing, and frankly, it's not like anything they say can stop us anyways. 

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Gryffindor replied...
Apr. 12, 2013 at 7:04 pm

Sorla, are you a United States citizen? If so, wether you agree with or disagree with, have or don't have, use or don't use, you will hvae to pay taxes just like the rest of us. Wether you like it or not. Don't pay taxes, they start taking stuff from you, that or they put you in a 6x9 feet concrete room with others who felt like they had nothing to do with society and therefore ignored the basic principles and laws that the government has set forth. Otherwise known as jail. 
 
Responsible has a little to do with your house catching on fire. Lightning catches your trees on fire and they fall on your house. House next door bursts into flame and takes you down with it. Should you live off the grid, which the government could care less about, the possibility(while very slim) of a forest fire or tornado happens upon. If you live off the grid, I don't think you have to pay taxes. but when you need help, it will take awhile. 
 
registered guns makes it so that if they find it on you then they can't take it from you without due process. However, should it be unregistered, forget the warrant, they can take it. 
You can vote,when you are 18. Federal law says 18 is when you become an adult and so therefore have more responsibilities to deal with. Until you are 18 your parent or guardian is law. Why should you get to vote for something that won't affect you right then and there. 
 
You can leave the country. Grab a passport and leave. I've done it 14 times. And I come back.
 
Can't grow pot, yea you can, if they find out you are scr.ewed, but otherwise like you said, if you aren't hurting anyone you can do whatever you want.
 
Can't drink, sure you can. Just have to deal with the consequences. Get a fake ID. Also scientifically proven your brain doesn't fully mature till you are 21. Thats why the drinking age is at 21.
 
 
Public places where you aren't allowed? Where?
 
 
Can't own guns? gotta be 18. Its that thing about gaining responsibilities.
 
 
Can't drive? Uhh yea you can. at least where I am from. At 14 you can get a permit to drive with a parent. At 16 you can have your driver's license with only two unrelated minors in the car. You can have more if there is someone over the age of 21 in the front seat. at 18 you get your actual license.
 
 
Can't hunt in your own backyard? How large is your backyard?
 
 
Live on your own.....I don't know what to say to that one....
 
 
Of course they have no right. 

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Apr. 12, 2013 at 7:29 pm

Just because I'm not eighteen doesn't make me any less responsible then a normal adult. I take care of two children by myself that aren't mine. One of them is my sister, the other is a little girl that child protective services screwed over. We had to take her out of an abusive housing situation, and if her social worker finds out, they'll just ship her off to another abusive home, cause I'm not her legal guardian. And I can't leave the country by myself, even if I did have a passport. They wouldn't let me get on a plane unless I have parental consent. I'm not allowed in a lot of bars and stores, just because of my age. If a cop sees me out after a certain time, he'll try to take me home, just cause of my age. I don't technically have a driver's license, but that doesn't mean I'm not a responsible driver. Who are they to tell me how to live? And I meant backyard in a broader sense. I don't have much of an actual backyard, living in an apartment building and all, but I hunt by the tracks and parks. I don't even use a gun, I set traps and use a bow, just so I don't bother anyone, which I think is pretty dam.n considerate. 

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Gryffindor replied...
Apr. 12, 2013 at 8:14 pm

Responsible as in holding a job, caring for two children, protecting them, paying your house and car off. Paying taxes, making sure they get an education, paying for food and clothing. Knowing the difference between right and wrong. That is what makes you a responsible adult. Making sure that who you care for have everything they need to survive and succeed in life. A log cabin in the woods off the grid is not one. 
 
 
and if you go hunting, what if, and this is an if, What if you hit someone and take someone out with your traps and bow. It could be a little kid who is following your prey and he pokes his head out of the corner immediately after you fire. What then? 
 
Parks are protected areas by the government. Especially the National Parks, to preserve life. Hunting in parks will land you in a large fine or jail. That's why they won't let you. Besides, whats wrong with hunting in season where everyone else hunts?

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Gryffindor replied...
Apr. 12, 2013 at 8:20 pm

Don't think I'm mad at you either. Like Breece said, I just strongly disagree with you, :)

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Apr. 12, 2013 at 10:38 pm

I provide for those kids, better then their parents ever did at least. They are warm, and fed, and safe, and I'm teaching them how to live on their own, depend on themselves and no one else. If they're independent, there will be less of a chance of them being taken advantage of. As for the hunting, I haven't taken anyone out yet. I've been urban hunting for about ten years now and no accidents so far. I know quite a few people who hunt in the city limits out of season, and no one's ever gotten hurt. It's not like we're totally reckless and irresponsible. And I make barely enough money to keep myself alive in society, let alone two kids. The hunting is just another way to keep us alive. No one else wants to eat squirrels and rabbits, so there should be no harm in me taking down a few a week to feed ourselves. Every season is squirrel hunting season as far as I'm aware lol. Those little thieving ninja bas.tards deserve to die anyways.

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CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 12, 2013 at 11:33 pm

Breece:
 
*Shrug* Seems like you could define pretty much anything as a survival tool in that case. Bazookas for when robbers got tanks? ;)
 
By "assault weapons" I mean the kind of weapons Congress is currently trying to restrict/ban that are not, in fact, assault weapons at all, just semi-automatic guns that look a bit more dangerous than others regardless of whether they actually are. As far as I know, there aren't bans on those. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this argument . . . . . 
 
Imagine:
 
Haha. *Shrug* Just throwin some thoughts out there. I prefer shooting shotguns to the rifles Congress is attempting to ban, so I'm more or less partial here. (Then again, the Aurora shooter also had a shotgun that he killed as many or more people with than with his AR-15 . . .) I just think banning the AR-15 would be pointless. Or its large magazines. It really doesn't take that long to reload when you're picking off unarmed civilians.
 
It just seems to me that phrases like "Those guns are made to kill people" are misguided. They aren't. The military doesn't even use the AR-15, and its variants they do use are almost always fully automatic. It's a sign of the demagoguery surrounding gun restrictions that the only real thing getting banned is the scary appearance of "assault weapons" that fire more or less at the same rate as all other weapons on the market, and do pretty much the same amount of damage.
 
As for background checks, that sounds reasonable. A long as the beauracratic process didn't make people wait for months before they could get what they paid for, whoch seems like the kinda c.rap certain politicains would pull.  

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CollinFThis teenager is a 'regular' and has contributed a lot of work, comments and/or forum posts, and has received many votes and high ratings over a long period of time. replied...
Apr. 12, 2013 at 11:38 pm

But you're right, Imagine. I'm not opposed to government intevervention in all cases whatsoever, like some of the others arguing with you. I think drug abuse is a disgusting stain on humanity's track record. Certain drugs are tied in with criminal behaviour and therefore unsuitable for regular legal consumption, etc.
 
But my common sense is telling me that banning "assault weapons" doesn't really make sense, because they're really not much different from any other semi-automatic weapon. I'd hate to set that kind of precedent.

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LeeAnna35 replied...
Apr. 26, 2013 at 9:46 pm

Guns aren't the problem. The people are. If society is gonna say "guns kill people" then they best be saying that spoons make people fat. PD. 

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