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Youth for Freedom and Justice points of unity

human6 posted this thread...
Sept. 3, 2012 at 9:36 pm




Every person has a right to a roof over their heads, a meal on their plates, and medicine when they are sick

When an economic and political system has the means to provide these things  but fails to it loses its right to exist

The American government spends millions on drug enforcement and a bloated military, while millions starve on the fabled streets of gold

The youth are forced to go millions into debt for colleges that increasingly look like they can’t give us the jobs they promise.

While we are trained for jobs that don’t exist the planet is dying, due to the acts of a few criminals on Wall Street and Capitol Hill


The first step to forming a movement for change is to create an organization that is directly controlled by its members and is rooted in the communities it serves

This organization must first work to create alternatives to the current top down systems of support for the suffering, FNB instead of soup kitchens, solidarity networks instead of dispute agencies and courts, these groups will provide the basis for further resistance.

Simultaneously this group must organize resistance to local crimes, and create spaces for alternative ideas and systems to develop.

As movements of resistance appear this group must continue to amp up the resistance until it is at its maximum velocity

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Aaron C. replied...
Sept. 21, 2012 at 3:29 pm

In a perfect world, this would work great! But as you and I know, we don't live in one. No matter what, there are genuinely bad people, genuinely hostile countries, and people who genuinely are not motivated enough to provide for themselves. We need a police force, a national defense, and a private sector. I will argue about the extent and style that we use these things, but any society that lacks these things is doomed to fail.

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sorla replied...
Sept. 21, 2012 at 4:46 pm

Well, if the revolution happens, I volunteer to be a peace bringer. It's up to us as the civilians to keep the peace, not the government. That's where most people go wrong in the first place, they depend to heavily on the government. But if everyone could defend themselves, we wouldn't have a problem with these bad people, they would be put down if they did bad things. 

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Aaron C. replied...
Sept. 21, 2012 at 4:50 pm

The problem with stateless societies is that those who are strong and powerhungry tend to dominate, starting up a dictatorship, which is exactly what the anti-state revolutionaries were trying to avoid.

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human6 replied...
Sept. 21, 2012 at 6:53 pm

Can you give an example of that. I agree that anarcho capitalism would do that, but not libertarian socialism/communism or mutualism. In anarcho capitalism it is possible to control lots of land giving the basis for a state. In anarcho communism its not, and in mutualism its not. 

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Aaron C. replied...
Sept. 21, 2012 at 8:18 pm

Libertarian socialism cannot exist. Socialism has to have some form of government to be implemented as it calls for communty ownership of the means of production. How could that happen, yet everyone would be left to make their own decisions and be free from governing bodies? Mutualism as a theory relies on the existence of very moral and ethical populaces. Most people would not cooperate as well as your Utopian scenarios. I fail to see how a mutualist society with no police force or military would be any more stable than an anarcho-capitalist one..

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human6 replied...
Sept. 21, 2012 at 8:38 pm

It worked in Spain with the democratic militias and labor unions in control of the industries.

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Aaron C. replied...
Sept. 21, 2012 at 8:53 pm

Then why isn't it still like that today? Why haven't other societies adopted, or even attempted to adopt that policty?

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human6 replied...
Sept. 21, 2012 at 9:17 pm

The fact that USSR dominated the left for the last 70 years, and most of the radical movements of the 60s were drop out politics. Then the revolutionary movement was destroyed. 
examples of working attempts since them:
Argentina: the factory occupations and popular assemblies.
Greece: right now
Occupy Wall Street: right now
The Tunisian Committees for Safeguarding the Revolution: right now
Anonymous: right now
Seatle Solidarity Network: right now
Seatle General Strike: the 30s
The Unemployed Councils: the 30's
the Farmers Alliance: 1880s

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Aaron C. replied...
Sept. 21, 2012 at 9:35 pm

I have no motivation to look up, research, and discredit each of your examples, but the two most recognizable of them, Greece and Occupy Wall Street are hardly visions of Utopian societies. First of all, Occupy Wall Street is dead. There's not a large enough base for them to be taken seriously anymore. And Greece is a mess because they have turned against capitalism, not to it. I'm not arguing capitalism is perfect- its not- but it is by far superior to any inherently flawed socialist state you promote. Do you really believe Greece is better because of the wealth redistribution that led to these economic problems in the first place? Do you think that a perfect state will painlessly evolve from this civil unrest?

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human6 replied...
Sept. 22, 2012 at 1:23 pm

prove that occupy is dead, the corporate media saying it is is not the same as it actually being dead.I've been to S16 and their were close to a thousand people their, not counting the many other solidarity actions, and the actions in other places around the country. 
Greece is a mess because of austerity watch reel news docuementry, Greece Our Present Is your future, and look up the Greek Peoples Assemblies. 

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sorla replied...
Sept. 22, 2012 at 2:46 pm

Well, in an ideal world, people would take responsibility for their actions and help promote the well being of others because they were inherently good, no matter what the government said. I've met plenty of people who have strong morals and respect their fellow mankind, but I've met plenty of selfish sociopaths as well. But when there is no government, or authority, the people become independent. They rely on themselves, their families, and their communities to protect each other.
I think of it like my neighborhood. The cops can't even make a dent in the crime, no matter how strict they are, but when push comes to shove, it's not the cops who save civilians from violence. We take care of each other. Someone starts screaming, and next thing you know there are multiple guns sticking out of windows. Random people have saved me more times then I can count, and I have returned the favor as well. The ones who become to much of a menace in society are the ones that end up at the bottom of the harbor.
If a bunch of "trashy, devious delinquents" (courtesy of detective Ward... who for the record shouldn't have passed his detective exam) such as ourselves can hold down the peace in a violent town without any outside help, and all these complications, then anyone can. It's easy to be an Anarchist once you start thinking about the greater good and have a deep respect for the rest of humanity.
By the way, how much do you think a Greek island would go for? Would it be cheaper or more expensive now that they're screwed? I want an island :P

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human6 replied...
Sept. 23, 2012 at 7:09 pm

Aron/ceaser please/read watch these:
ht tp: //w ww.youtube .co m / watch?v=7Qx4     qEO 4Yaw &feature= related
h ttp: //ww w. you tube .c om / watch?v= jPl_Y3Q db7Y
ht tp :/ /libcom.org / library / our-p resent-your-future
ht tp:/  /w ww.yo utube .c om / watch?v=_ wd3h s8B-k0
ht tp://ww w.historyisaweapon.co m / defcon1 / zinnbaron11 .ht ml
htt p: / /ww w.historyisaweapon. co m / defcon1/zinnbar on11.ht ml
ht tp: //ww w.historyisaweapon. co m / defcon1/socchal13.h tml

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Aaron C. replied...
Sept. 23, 2012 at 8:02 pm

Even if those links worked, I wouldn't watch them regardless. You are never going to convince me that a communistic society will create wealth, prosperity, innovations, and standard of living better than a capitalistic society will until that actually happens. It hasn't, and in numerous historical examples, it is quite clear freedom, capitalism, and prosperity go hand in hand.

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human6 replied...
Sept. 23, 2012 at 9:30 pm

You need to despace them, TI blocks URLs.
These are historical examples. Of anarchist communism and similar systems

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Aaron C. replied...
Sept. 24, 2012 at 9:21 am

There are no examples of anarchistic communist societies gaining economic prosperity, technological prosperity, personal freedom, and standard of living even close to what the United States' capitalism has accomplished in less than 250 years. 

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Aaron C. replied...
Sept. 24, 2012 at 9:31 am

1,000 people is a laughable number for OWS. I could get that many people to say that the Earth is flat. The face is OWS has devolved into a pack of radical anarchists and communists that hold no political impact whatsoever. I am not trying to be harsh; that is just what it has become. The Tea Party has largely suffered a similar fate, only a right wing version. And if austerity killed Greece, then what should have been done? Their economy was in shambles and they were about to be dropped from the EU.

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human6 replied...
Sept. 30, 2012 at 11:15 am

Economic prosperity: In the spanish revolution production trippled, also I don't consider a society with more homeless than houses, and ghetto's to be prosperous.
techonology: all major tech advancements were public sector, outside of the profit motive.
personal freedom: So the patriot act and NDAA don't exist. Also their are more people in prison in America than any other country.
standard of living: That standard of living was ripped from the jaws of capitalism by the blood and sweat of union organizers, civil rights activists, abolisionists, revolutionary guerillas, student organizers and rebels, from the anti rentor movement to the IWW

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Sept. 30, 2012 at 7:33 pm

Economic prosperity: In a country of 350 million people, some are going to not get jobs. No economic system is perfect. But those who have gifts, tenacity, and yes, sometimes luck can succeed and have succeded in America. America has historically had the strongest middle class of any nation.
Technology: "profit incentive" is what capitalism IS! People make money off of innovations. "All public sector except profit incentive." Well duh! No one sits around at home and puts hours into innovating things for no reason. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the auto industry for nothing; he made a lot of money, but you can't argue that all Americans didn't benefit! Airplanes, the steamboat, electricity, iPods, have all been invented and developed by private sector innovators. And yes the Internet was public sector, but was really only brought to full potential by the private class. 
Personal Freedom: Sure, we're not perfect, but I personally don't agree with the Patriot Act, and no one can deny we are more free than a communistic country like North Korea, or even a very liberal country like the UK.
Standard of Living: Because of the very nature of freedom and capitlism, dissenting voices are allowed to speak freely, and they have throughout the US's history. The public decided that it was just to have a minimum wage, worker's right's laws, and other laws protecting laborers. That is the beauty of freedom and capitalism. It is not perfect, but it is free to be modified and improved.

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JunieSparrow replied...
Oct. 3, 2012 at 4:08 pm

Hey Sorla, check this out. 
ht tp://ww w.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024761/Atlas-Shrugged-Silicon-Valley-billionaire-reveals-plan-launch-floating-start-country-coast-San-Francisco.ht ml
(By the way, sorry I didn't ever post for your RP.  I hate getting computer grounded.)

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